Idaman

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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alacattleman
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Re: Idaman

Postby alacattleman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:17 pm

TexasBred wrote:Dang all of a sudden we're having an online family reunion.
pretty neat aint it :cowboy:
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Re: Idaman

Postby Herefords.US » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:30 pm

alacattleman wrote:
TexasBred wrote:Dang all of a sudden we're having an online family reunion.
pretty neat aint it :cowboy:


Yeah, we've had some of it at its near worst on CT - but this is this medium at its best!

Don't get any better than this!

I feel like I'm back on the side porch with my great aunt listening to her stories about growing up in the West!

George
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Re: Idaman

Postby TexasBred » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:41 pm

alacattleman wrote:
TexasBred wrote:Dang all of a sudden we're having an online family reunion.
pretty neat aint it :cowboy:


I reckon so if you're a hereford breeder or know any of these folks. Unfortunately I'm in the dark. (which ain't unusual either. :lol2: )
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Re: Idaman

Postby BIZIN » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:53 pm

Keep the stories coming Idaman!
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Re: Idaman

Postby WichitaLineMan » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:55 pm

I'd like to hear some stories or more on how Mr. Nash "roughed" his cattle through the winters in Colorado.

I sure don't live in Colorado, but I think we have taken a lot of the vigor and "doing ability" out of our cattle by the way we pamper them. I try not to. I have stated before that my program verges on being called "benign neglect". This is the first winter I went totally without hay. It actually worked out pretty nicely. The experiment has convinced me that this is no land for fall calvers and I will probably phase out that portion of my operation. With cattle prices where they are now, I have a chance to just sell those cows (commercial and Hereford) for a decent price right now.
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Re: Idaman

Postby Idaman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:41 pm

A big Idaho welcome to Julie Nash. You were young enough that we weren't well acquainted but there are some great stories on Franklins youngest daughter from the well of Franklin memories. Franklin was a serious subject but without seeing his humor and potential humor you missed a big part of the man.

Another area I have not touched on in regard to Franklin was his esperiences in WW2. We often talked at great length about those experiences and since I was serving in the ANG at the time(pre Nam) he obviously really wanted me to know where he was coming from. He was originally in the US army but after his first leave and trip to Australia he applied to be reassigned to the Australian Coast Watches. Their assignment was to hire local native fishermen and their boats and then spy on the Japanese and radio in their information every night. This meant that he was out there alone with the natives for literally a year at a time but sometimes only months as well. His partner was the man who picked up the crew of PT 109 of Kennedy fame. That was another part of their assignment, to pick up downed pilots and wrecked PT boat crews. They ate mostly turtle eggs and became quite proficient at their preparation. At times he said they could sit literally on the end of a Japanese runway on some island and count the planes coming in and departing. The Japanese never patrolled their perimeters so they were pretty safe. Franklin said that early in the war the US was able to crack the Japanese message code and they read all their encoded messages and the Japs never figured it out. He was over there in this position for several years I believe.


Here is where the story gets really controversial and this heresy may get me thrown off of CT. Franklin was assigned to a unit after the fighting had stopped that had a judge that was to decide the cases of the local natives in a sort of court. So with Franklins recent experience with the natives, the Judge asked Franklin to serve as a court investigator. In the course of those investigations it became evident that the major cause of the disputes was caused from the local native women complaining about the lack of mansculinity of their local men. Franklin said that the women had evolved into really large beauties. The men on the other hand had atrophied to the point they were almost steers. Franklin felt that the reason for this was the constant inbreeding of the natives with a closed population on those small islands. One of the main disputes was the practice of the women from one island kidnapping the men from another island for certain purposes and then holding them hostages.

In our conversations he said that the same was somewhat true in line breeding cattle. I agreed then and am more convinced now especially when I lived among the North Americam natives in small local reserves where you see all sorts of genetic abnormalities. We discussed this at a much more private level but that is not for CT posts.
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Re: Idaman

Postby rocket2222 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:48 pm

Herefords.US wrote:
alacattleman wrote:
TexasBred wrote:Dang all of a sudden we're having an online family reunion.
pretty neat aint it :cowboy:


Yeah, we've had some of it at its near worst on CT - but this is this medium at its best!

Don't get any better than this!

I feel like I'm back on the side porch with my great aunt listening to her stories about growing up in the West!

George


I agree, great stuff, hope they all stay a while. You need a thick skin around here sometimes, from the looks of the cattle they're raising I don't think they have to worry to much. ;-) :)
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Re: Idaman

Postby Idaman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:03 pm

WichitaLineMan wrote:I'd like to hear some stories or more on how Mr. Nash "roughed" his cattle through the winters in Colorado.

I sure don't live in Colorado, but I think we have taken a lot of the vigor and "doing ability" out of our cattle by the way we pamper them. I try not to. I have stated before that my program verges on being called "benign neglect". This is the first winter I went totally without hay. It actually worked out pretty nicely. The experiment has convinced me that this is no land for fall calvers and I will probably phase out that portion of my operation. With cattle prices where they are now, I have a chance to just sell those cows (commercial and Hereford) for a decent price right now.


Mr. Nash wintered his cattle out basically because his ranch allowed and required it. At the 9000 foot elevation in the area of Colorado where he lived they got very little snow as say compared to the Wet Mountain Valley where I lived. They could depend on the wind to bare off the ridges enough to let the cattle survive and almost prosper. Once a week he would make a feed round to those cows with protein pellets with a salt control. The pellets were especially made for him from fourth cutting alfalfa.

He bought literally hundreds of tons of hay from us but that only went to his selling bulls and keeping heifer calves.

I am totally with you on this low input way of raising cattle. One half of our herd here in Idaho are fed April and May on requirement of the BLM and the other half run out all winter. We even let the fall calves go with their mothers and they seem as heavy as if they were fed hay all winter. I think they wean themselves in early March and then utilize the greening up grass just as well as the cow. We have been at this practice since 1988.

Kit Pharo of Pharo Cattle Co. has a whole organization dedicated to this practice and its' implementation. Check his website and his Herd Quitter meetings.
Last edited by Idaman on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Idaman

Postby KMacGinley » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:35 pm

jhambley wrote:
I had a Deewall bull on the place last night for about 15 min


I'm sure KMac will post his own photos as soon as the bull has a chance to recover from the trip. In the mean time, Jane Deewall asked that I help her post a photo of KMac's D Advance 806 bull. He just turned two.

Image


I am back from Kansas and yes, back in the Hereford business. :) I have two Jerry Hambley horned hereford cows and a Cooksley polled cow. In the next few years, we will be turning out some baldies of Ohlde and Deewall breeding and growing our Hereford herd, which would go a lot faster if Deewalls ever have heifers for sale. :)

I know that Jane and Mike are reading this thread, so I want to thank you for the bull, and Lynn really thanks you for the Lemon Bread, which she appreciated much more than the bull. :) Mike and Jane are some great people and did what they said they were going to do, which I really appreciate.

Tim Ohlde really liked him, as he spent a couple of days there in the barn. The bull has a great disposition and I think was greatly appreciated by all who viewed him.

Got to see Julian's Red angus cattle. Wow! Great red angus, if you are looking for the red's you need to check them out!

Hauled home 3 angus bulls from the sale for people in Indiana and Illinois, had to get the Hereford off the trailer to transfer one of the bulls and did it at Gary Kaper's. When that Horned bull came off the trailer, I think I heard all of the Shorthorn bulls flee from the barn, but it was dark, so I couldn't really tell. :)
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Re: Idaman

Postby Idaman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:39 pm

If you are interested in learning about our Canadian Ranch, Empire Valley, then google Churn Creek Grasslands and read about our winter pasture and see a few good pictures. Across the creek to the North lies the mighty Gang Ranch and to the south the rest of Empire Valley.

Our ranch had no exterior or boundary fences. The fences were all natural barriers like unscalable Churn Creek. That creek separated us from the Gang Ranch for seventy-six miles which was the length of both of our ranges. You could ride from one end of it to the other in a day if you started before daylight , changed horses at noon and ended about dark. I know this because our older son rode this trip in one day at the age of fourteen. He had started going to the mountains with the cowboy indians at the age of twelve, much to his mothers chagrin. He is without a doubt the most natural and gifted horseman and cowman I have ever known since he never knew anything else. All of our present neighbors rely on his rope and cattle abilities. He is a keen appraiser of the condition of our range cows and tells me " they are happy or P'oed." There were no roads anywhere near this route so when you left the barn you saddled up in the spring and returned in the fall. In fact when I took food and hay to the crews at the cow camps I drove 265 miles to get there. I had to go out to the major highway and then around through Lilloett and along Bridge Lake to get to the Relay Creek cow camp. My family and I lived many summers at that camp with the indian cowboys and a bunch of horses and dogs. We were usually there from July one through September one. This range was called Tyaughton or in Shuswap good little things from the ground. The legend was that early winter snows trapped a group of indians in that valley and they survuved on rock chucks hence they came from the ground.
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Re: Idaman

Postby Idaman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:05 pm

Image

Churn Creek Grasslands
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Re: Idaman

Postby MistyMorning » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:14 pm

Thanks for the stories, I too am enjoying them. Please continue.
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Re:WichitaLineMan

Postby 1914 Hereford » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:55 pm

You ask about the wintering practices of the Nash herd. Idaman answered some of it., but I might expand on it a little more. Dad weaned the calves after it got fairly cold, as he felt, he had less problems when the temperature changes were less broad. After the cows got bawled out, he took took the whole bunch to the Basin, a large pasture that had good live water and great gramma grass. It was a pasture that he only used in the winter.
The Basin had a lot of south slopes which the sun hit, which would melt off the snow faster. Dad always said that the gramma grass was a super strong grass and was all a cow needed, if she had some protein to go along with it. Every three weeks, he would take a load of Dehi (small alfalfa pellets) that he had made especially for his operation. In it, he would have mixed salt as a limiting consumption factor. He would put the Dehi into large long open troughs- fill them to the brim. Rarely did he see even 1/2 the cows in the pasture. When I went with him, we would be thrilled to see 3 or 4 of the cows.There were many times , that he ended up high centering to old truck in a snow drift and actually walking out, to come back with the county road crew to pull him out, the next day. ( He always rewarded them to a good steak dinner after the rescue.) The cows stayed in the Basin until they calved in May, and would come out looking pretty good, on an average winter, and pretty thin if we had had a lot of snow. As soon as the grass started to green up, they would pick up really fast. This was when he calved them for the first time as three year olds. He rarely saw them calve and didn't have any sympathy for the very few that came out without a calf. They were grass fattened during the summer and sold in the fall to the Prison for slaughter. In later years, Dad calved the first calf heifers at two years old. He often said that this was when he noticed the change in disposition. The cows were around people a lot more as two year olds and never forgot it.
On the Bull front, he threw all them together, except those that he ran on the registered cows This was when he ran a lot of commercial cows as well as his small registered herd, from which he raised all the bulls for the commercial cows. Seeing 20 or so mature bulls, with their fantastic uniformity, running in the one field is a sight that I will never forget, and will probably never see again. When he had run them on the commercial cows, if a bull stood out, he would pull him to use on the registered cows the next year. The summering and fence building will have to be explored on future posts.
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Re: Idaman

Postby Idaman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:08 pm

Maybe someone here could assist in the recruiting of Jim Lents to post on here as well. I emailed him the other day and he responded right away.
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Re: Idaman

Postby caprock » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:17 pm

Here I said I wouldn't much up the boards with my non cattle talk but.. Jane talks about handling the herd differently. In the mid 80's we started walking through everything that Dad kept close to the house every night (two year old heifers and their first calves) as part of our new found exercise craze. First week every cow threw up her head and ran over the hill at rocket speed. By the end of the last week they would all stand around and look at us. After about three years of doing this, we noticed that on the first "walk" most of them would run off but a few would just look. We started thinking about it figured that the few that didn't run we're probably daughters of two year olds and were used to us. Each year they seemed to get less interested in the strange apes walking through them. Really, if you think about it, after several years nearly every cow on the place was used to us (and whoever else was around) walking through them every evening. My brother started complaining that the cows were "to tame to drive" and hard to work horseback. So I can attest to the "desensitization therapy" approach-at least with the Nash cattle I grew up with.
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