2way and 3waycross explained.

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

Stocker Steve
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:25 pm

3waycross wrote: To me, growthy is not how big he is but how fast he got that big.


BW was about 6# below herd average.
Weaning weight was about 40# below herd average.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby Nesikep » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:45 pm

I would consider him as a heifer bull perhaps in that case, though these days it seems like you don't have to sacrifice that much weaning weight to to save BW. Our limo bull was about 10 lbs above herd average BW, but when I picked him up at 18 months he was a far more impressive animal, his WW was somewhere around the 700's, but I don't know how that corresponded with the herd average

Edit, just looked him up, WW was 800, adjusted to 694, BW was 91, YW was 1250 adjusted to 1155
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby CKC1586 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:12 am

double v wrote:If you read the article it will go into purebred breeding and terminal sires , read first then comment. That article helps both purebred breeders and the commercial breeder.

An informed opinion, wouldn't that be great! But an opinion is the right of each of us to have. As my Dad always said, "opinions are like be nice, everyone has one". He was a wise man. :tiphat:
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby sandhillguy » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:40 pm

Hi I am kinda the new kid on the block and was looking for insight on crossbreeding. I just started my herd a few years ago with black Angus and 2 years ago I had a chance to grow my herd by leasing a bunch of red Angus bred heifers. Last year thinking I wanted to breed out the red so I put some black bulls on my reds. Both colors having traits i'm looking for such as frame, milk,ect...

My question for you guys is would I be ahead to stick with one of the breeds or crossing breeding to get some different blood lines in there then pick a breed to stick with.

Note: I am just a commercial breeder and not looking to raise seed stock or register any thing

Thanks
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby Banjo » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:22 pm

Will there be varying degrees of hertosis even in the F1 cross? If I get a Bull A and breed to Cow B and Bull A comes from parents that aren't related or not very closely related within the breed...basically outcrossed within the breed, am I going to get the same bang, spark(hertosis) that I would using a bull that comes from a closed herd and has been linebred fairly heavy?
My thoughts are if that bull is wound a little tighter, you'll get more hertosis. Thoughts anyone.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby WalnutCrest » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:26 am

Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby gaurus » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:49 am

WalnutCrest wrote:The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis.


True, but sometimes too distantly related breeds will cause more harm than good even if their heterosis% is very high statistically speaking.

For example (Bos indicus x Bos grunniens) x Bison will show the biggest hybrid vigor of any possible cross, but it will be a wash at the feedlot or will prove to be a poor gainer. a British/Continental cross will prove to be more profitable, so while hybrid vigor is good, breed complementation is better... :cboy:
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby WalnutCrest » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:11 pm

gaurus wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis.


True, but sometimes too distantly related breeds will cause more harm than good even if their heterosis% is very high statistically speaking.

For example (Bos indicus x Bos grunniens) x Bison will show the biggest hybrid vigor of any possible cross, but it will be a wash at the feedlot or will prove to be a poor gainer. a British/Continental cross will prove to be more profitable, so while hybrid vigor is good, breed complementation is better... :cboy:


(Indicus x. Grunniens) x. Bison = highly likely to have fertility problems = bad example of heterosis = not something I'd ever recommend to anyone

Good heterosis = good fertility & growth

Bad heterosis = low number at the end of a formula, and pretty much nothing else
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby WalnutCrest » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:01 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.


Following upon this after returning from my trip to France ... if I wanted to get a super three way rotation working, I'd start by contracting with the best Brahman females to AI them to either Aubrac or Murray Grey where you're buying all the heifers at a pre-agreed to formula ... then ... using either Aubrac or MG on them ... then Brahman on top of those.

At any time you wanted, you could throw a homozygous black bull in there to get black calves if you thought you needed some.

Good grief, those would be some great mamas.

Throw a terminal Char bull in the pasture for some real scale mashers...
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:36 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.


Following upon this after returning from my trip to France ... if I wanted to get a super three way rotation working, I'd start by contracting with the best Brahman females to AI them to either Aubrac or Murray Grey where you're buying all the heifers at a pre-agreed to formula ... then ... using either Aubrac or MG on them ... then Brahman on top of those.

At any time you wanted, you could throw a homozygous black bull in there to get black calves if you thought you needed some.

Good grief, those would be some great mamas.

Throw a terminal Char bull in the pasture for some real scale mashers...


Make sure to have a shovel or backhoe ready come calving season.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby WalnutCrest » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:16 pm

About 1/3 ...of the national Aubrac herd in France is bred to double muscled Charolais bulls ... and ... they still lead all French breeds in calving ease. FWIW.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:11 am

This isn't France, it seems like most folks in Europe babysit their cows, and with that kind of management you better.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby Gators Rule » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:01 pm

Agreed. It seems a lot of Europeans have no qualms pulling calves so not hard to believe they could be average or better. Personally I would run from the French double muscled breeds.
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby Nesikep » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:03 am

WalnutCrest wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.


Following upon this after returning from my trip to France ... if I wanted to get a super three way rotation working, I'd start by contracting with the best Brahman females to AI them to either Aubrac or Murray Grey where you're buying all the heifers at a pre-agreed to formula ... then ... using either Aubrac or MG on them ... then Brahman on top of those.

At any time you wanted, you could throw a homozygous black bull in there to get black calves if you thought you needed some.

Good grief, those would be some great mamas.

Throw a terminal Char bull in the pasture for some real scale mashers...


Murray Gray have the color diluter gene don't they? Would make reliably getting black calves impossible if that's the case..


Other than Herf and Angus, What other british beef breeds are there?
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Re: 2way and 3waycross explained.

Postby WalnutCrest » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:37 pm

Nesikep wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.


Following upon this after returning from my trip to France ... if I wanted to get a super three way rotation working, I'd start by contracting with the best Brahman females to AI them to either Aubrac or Murray Grey where you're buying all the heifers at a pre-agreed to formula ... then ... using either Aubrac or MG on them ... then Brahman on top of those.

At any time you wanted, you could throw a homozygous black bull in there to get black calves if you thought you needed some.

Good grief, those would be some great mamas.

Throw a terminal Char bull in the pasture for some real scale mashers...


Murray Gray have the color diluter gene don't they? Would make reliably getting black calves impossible if that's the case..

Other than Herf and Angus, What other british beef breeds are there?


Shorthorn
Galloway
Scottish Highland

...and two (ish) weeks ago, I saw the only herd of Sussex cattle in North America.
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