Aubrac Cattle

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

WalnutCrest
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby WalnutCrest » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:52 am

Hector is Nolan's sire. Nolan is Maximus' sire ... and Upra's and Violet' s sire.

This past spring, 30% of our calves were Maximus kids out of unrelated dams... and 40% were calves out of Nolan daughters to unrelated sires. ET is a powerful tool.

We would only use the more continental looking animals that are superior in beef quality traits, udders, temperament, longevity, fertility, or some other functional trait. The French keep many statistics that helpful in that regard.

The only other bull from the list above we've used is Frumius. Echo and Edgar remain in the tank. Echo had some good beef quality and maternal traits. Edgar is just hanging around in the tank...

Most of the bulls we use are not shown above. I didn't have pictures of them at the time I posted this thread.
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Aubracbeef.com » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:03 am

Image
Aubrac cattle have a nice combination of body depth and muscle.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:40 pm

Violet is my favorite. I am very opposed to the super heavy muscle look. Not my kind of cattle. But, that's what is nice about our business. Lots of variety for everyone.
Do you want DM? I would think not, but was wondering.
Looking back, Violet is much deeper and less "round" than all the others, that's why she catches my eye.
You do not believe in vaccines?
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby WalnutCrest » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:27 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Violet is my favorite. I am very opposed to the super heavy muscle look. Not my kind of cattle. But, that's what is nice about our business. Lots of variety for everyone.


When we bought Violet, she was to be the focus of our ET program. She died of natural causes before we could flush her even once ... so, we've used a daughter, a half sister and a half brother quite a bit instead. Another daughter of hers may be queued up to use the next time we're flushing.

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Do you want DM? I would think not, but was wondering.


Two basic types of DM ... missence (i.e., it doesn't express in utero) types (there are at least three of these, including one known as F94L) and disruptive (i.e., it does express in utero). We do not want anything to do with any sort of disruptive variant. The F94L variant common in Aubrac is also very common in Limousin cattle and it doesn't begin expressing itself until about 3-4 weeks.

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Looking back, Violet is much deeper and less "round" than all the others, that's why she catches my eye.


She was hugely tremendously awesome. And sweet natured, too.

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:You do not believe in vaccines?


I don't want any Autistic cattle. ;)

Vaccines are ok. We've never had a need to give them. We will treat when sick...it just doesn't happen very often with our Aubracs.

Over the last five years, we've spent less than 15% of what we've spent on a per head per year basis on treating our Aubracs and Mashona cattle than we have on the commercial blacks and BWF cows we've had.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:40 pm

Hopefully, you never get in a position to WISH you had vaccinated.
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Nesikep » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:05 pm

I like Violet best as well, Upra looks like a heifer.. I do love her horns, but the depth isn't there, especially since they usually get more as they age and she still doesn't have it.. Nice to look at but not my type... Navet and Michelle look very similar to me
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Boot Jack Bulls » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:16 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Violet is my favorite. I am very opposed to the super heavy muscle look. Not my kind of cattle. But, that's what is nice about our business. Lots of variety for everyone.


When we bought Violet, she was to be the focus of our ET program. She died of natural causes before we could flush her even once ... so, we've used a daughter, a half sister and a half brother quite a bit instead. Another daughter of hers may be queued up to use the next time we're flushing.

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Do you want DM? I would think not, but was wondering.


Two basic types of DM ... missence (i.e., it doesn't express in utero) types (there are at least three of these, including one known as F94L) and disruptive (i.e., it does express in utero). We do not want anything to do with any sort of disruptive variant. The F94L variant common in Aubrac is also very common in Limousin cattle and it doesn't begin expressing itself until about 3-4 weeks.

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Looking back, Violet is much deeper and less "round" than all the others, that's why she catches my eye.


She was hugely tremendously awesome. And sweet natured, too.

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:You do not believe in vaccines?


I don't want any Autistic cattle. ;)

Vaccines are ok. We've never had a need to give them. We will treat when sick...it just doesn't happen very often with our Aubracs.

Over the last five years, we've spent less than 15% of what we've spent on a per head per year basis on treating our Aubracs and Mashona cattle than we have on the commercial blacks and BWF cows we've had.


Can you please explain what you mean by the F94L gene "expressing itself"? As a Limi breeder, F94L is something I've studied quite extensively, and my understanding is it is a gene that causes a carrier to have more carcass weight, less back fat and less internal fat. As far as I have read, it doesn't cause any sort of DM, but has a direct affect on carcass traits. If that is the case, how does a 3-4 week old calf show it? Most Limis who are 2 copy carriers of F94L don't have DM characteristics.....
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby WalnutCrest » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Ahhh...

Words mean things and we have a definitional issue.

There are a very wide variety of mutations in the genetic code that impact muscularity in mammals. Some of these begin expressing themselves in utero. Some outside the uterus.

Traditionally, "double muscling" and "muscular hypertrophy" are really (!) bad words in terms of breeding functional cattle. To be 100% clear, any animal carrying disruptive variants of the myostatin mutation (see below for additional information) has no (!!) role in our breeding program, nor should it in anyone breeding maternally-oriented cattle.

Any mutation that expresses after the calf is born does NOT affect calving ease and is considered a 'missence variant'. The mutations that begin expressing themselves in utero that are the problems; they are 'disruptive variants'. F94L (commonly in Aubrac and Limousin cattle) is a 'missence variant' in the world of myostatin mutations.

Quoting directly from the Igenity "results key" (click here for the info; see the 2nd page)

"Myostatin, as a part of the Igenity Profile, analyzes for nine different variants of the myostatin gene, even though some may not be found in all breeds. Six variants are classified as "disruptive;" these cause muscle hypertrophy (double-muscling), larger birth weights, increased dystocia and enhanced tenderness. Three myostatin variants are referred to as "missence," and will increase muscularity and reduce external and intramuscular fat, with no change in birth weight. For all myostatin variants one copy is intermediate."

Disruptive Variants:
C313Y (commonly associated with Piedmontese)
E226X (research ties this to Maine-Anjou)
E291X (commonly found in Marchigiana)
nt419 (research indicates this is commonly affiliated with Maine-Anjou cattle)
nt821 (research commonly ties this to Belgian Blue, Blonde d'Aquitaine, Limousin (click here for more info) and South Devon cattle; of note, this type exists in some registered Angus cattle -- see this fact sheet for additional information)
Q204X (research ties this to Charolais (click for more info) and Limousin)

Missence Variants:
F94L (commonly in Limousin and Aubrac)
D182N
S105C

F94L (and a few others) do not begin expressing themselves until the calf is on the ground. As a result, the calf will be of a normal size with typical amounts of muscling. In these instances, the enhanced muscling doesn't begin to express until the calf is on the ground, typically (at least in Aubracs) around 3-4 weeks of age.

There are many (!) types of muscular hypertrophy being uncovered by researchers around the world on a regular basis. The ones above are the ones available for DNA testing via Igenity (Neogen / Geneseek). Other labs may offer testing for other types of myostatin mutations. Google is your friend for more info...

Here is a decent primer on some of these issues on the South Devon website, including a detailed bibliography for additional reading --> click here

NOTE --- THE IGENITY QUOTE ABOVE DOESN'T REFERENCE THAT SOME OF THE MUTATIONS RESULT IN MORE MUSCLE FIBERS THAT ARE THIN, OTHERS RESULT IN THE SAME NUMBER OF MUSCLE FIBERS, BUT THE FIBERS ARE THICKER. THICK MUSCLE FIBERS ARE HARDER TO CUT AND THEREFORE RESULT IN TOUGHER BEEF. IF YOU WANT TENDER BEEF, FIND A MUTATION (like F94L) THAT RESULTS IN MORE THIN MUSCLE FIBERS. THE IGENITY DEFINITION (imo, wrongly) ASCRIBES TENDERNESS TO ALL DISRUPTIVE VARIANTS AND NONE TO THE MISSENCE VARIANTS. IT HAS BEEN OUR EXPERIENCE THIS ISN'T ACCURATE -- SOME DISRUPTIVE VARIANTS ARE TOUGHER AND SOME MISSENCE VARIANTS ARE MORE TENDER. F94L CARRIES THE WONDERFUL DISTINCTION OF BEING BOTH A MISSENCE VARIANT and RESULTING IN MORE LONG, THIN MUSCLE FIBERS.

While not definitive, this is the most wide-ranging research I've seen in terms of the numbers of breeds covered.
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Nesikep » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:12 am

I was trying to find info on it and Gelbvieh.. Found this which is pretty interesting..
https://books.google.ca/books?id=Kmh0KA ... in&f=false
Not as much to read as I'd hoped though
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:24 am

WalnutCrest

Over the course of an organism's phylogenetic history, mutations occur. They accumulate and are integrated into the genome of the species. The changes in the genome that result from mutations - which is a continuing process in the evolutionary history of every species - at some point are no longer called "mutations". It is simply an integral part of the genome.

My point is : the genetic code of a species over its evolutionary history is a reflection of an accumulation of mutations. My question is why are you continuing to refer to the Disruptive and Missence Variants you listed as "mutations"?

PS: I am not implying that it is wrong to continue to call these variants mutations! I am simply wondering at what point you drop the term mutation if it is now established in the genome. Obviously, we can both start with the premise that the variants originated as mutations.

Thanks.
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby WalnutCrest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:33 am

I think I'm using the words of other people here. I don't believe I'm treading any new ground as it regards terminology ... and I don't plan on starting any time soon.
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Re: Aubrac Cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:07 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:I think I'm using the words of other people here. I don't believe I'm treading any new ground as it regards terminology ... and I don't plan on starting any time soon.


I thought that was the case. The reason I wonder is because calling it a mutation gives the impression: it is a newly discovered genetic phenomenon. Has these variants been known for a long time? And are they well established in the Aubrac Breed? If so, they have moved beyond the mutation phase.
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