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Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:38 pm
by gizmom
War Eagle

I don't know a thing about Hereford genetics, but I can tell you by looking at your calves you are sure enough on the right track. Nice calves.

gizmom

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:21 pm
by Lucky_P
Good looking calves.

To each his own...I was on the 'cows are too big' bandwagon for a couple of years... used a well-known 4-frame Angus bull ... and he 'downsized' 'em way too much; took away a lot of growth and performance at the same time, too. Sure glad I didn't go with some of those 2.5-3 frame bulls KP is pushing... much less a <2 frame Hereford. I think you can do better.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:55 pm
by WarEagle73
Lucky_P wrote:Good looking calves.

To each his own...I was on the 'cows are too big' bandwagon for a couple of years... used a well-known 4-frame Angus bull ... and he 'downsized' 'em way too much; took away a lot of growth and performance at the same time, too. Sure glad I didn't go with some of those 2.5-3 frame bulls KP is pushing... much less a <2 frame Hereford. I think you can do better.


Agreed. I think there is some middle ground in there. I don't need anything that small running around my place. What I do like about him is his pedigree says he will make it on KY31 Fescue and he appears to have more pounds of muscle than a lot of the FS 6 bulls you see in some semen catalogs. I'd like to find an OCC-style Hereford to make a crossbred cow.

I want a cow that can wean at least 50% of her body weight. I really don't care how big or small that cow is. Those cows in those pictures are about 950-1100 pounds. I think that is about the right size. They have all weaned steers that I have backgrounded for 60 days and sold at 725-800 lbs. If I can do that on all of them I'll be more than happy. I have a couple of cows that will be in the 1300-1500 lbs. range and they have never been able to keep up with that 950 lb. baldie cow in our system. Unfortunately between those three cows I have had 1 heifer in the last 5 years. This year they all had heifers so I am pretty excited about building some cow families off those girls.

I'm looking for efficiency. I am not sold that small=efficient, but I do think there are more medium-small efficient cows running around than big efficient cows.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:34 pm
by WalnutCrest
Pounds weaned per acre on limited inputs is the goal for the guy who wants to turn a profit in all weather and all markets. Keep an open mind about how you might best achieve that. Good luck to you.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:45 pm
by Post Oak
WarEagle73 wrote:Wanted to share some examples of what I have and want to reproduce. The first is a high percentage Angus female. She is probably 9-10 years old and looks to have a few good years left in her. The other two are Angus/South Poll cross females. Both 5 year olds. Fortunately all of them had heifers this year.

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I feel good that I can find Angus genetics that will work: OCC, Wye, Green Gardens, and a few bulls from other programs.

Any ideas about Herefords? I have found a few bulls that are heavily Trask influenced, but they all have issues.Edisto 136 battle rupert t352 is a good example. He might be a bit too small and his eye set worries me. Other than that I really like the bull alot.

Red Angus? Pharo has a bull or two I'd be interested in using, but I am just not familiar with that breed at all. I like the idea of having more red females around. They seem to handle our summers better. The Shorthorns might fit this role pretty well.

Thanks for all the replies. I like hearing about what other folks are having success with around the country. No point in reinventing the wheel all the time.

There is a Hudson fella over in Georgia that probably raises the type Red Angus that you are looking for.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:11 pm
by City Guy
If you want good Red Angus take a look at Red Hill in TN and Calvo in Nebraska. Both are forage only producers. Also Lacy and Dunseth in MO.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:17 pm
by gizmom
Just an update on the Charlo calves, we have 7 on the ground and have worked them several times. All are pretty easy to get along with so I don't know if I agree with the docility number.

gizmom

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:04 am
by SJB
City Guy wrote:If you want good Red Angus take a look at Red Hill in TN and Calvo in Nebraska. Both are forage only producers. Also Lacy and Dunseth in MO.


You have first hand knowledge, or is that from reading it somewhere?

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:04 pm
by WarEagle73
Since this thread got brought back to life I can give an update. Of the heifer calves pictured above, only one is pregnant. The one in the last picture died about 30 days after we AI'ed her. The calf in the first picture was confirmed pregnant to AI at about 60 days, but we rechecked at 110 days and she was open. I'm going to have her rechecked one more time before I ship her.

We have 4 AI sired heifers that are about to wean. 2 of them are out of Connealy Consensus 7229 which I am pretty happy about. Our preg checks this year say we should have 10-11 more AI sired calves coming in the next calf crop. Doesn't sound like much, but we will only calve 30 total next year.

This year we went back and AI'ed using Connealy Consensus 7229, Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon, and a Hereford bull KCF BENNETT 9126J R294. Hopefully they will take us in the direction we want to go. Big middled type cows with moderate frame and milk that can raise good calves on grass. The Angus bulls I feel good about. The hereford I think will do fine. The other thing I like on these bulls is the carcass merit. 6EM3 could have better Marbling, but the others are pretty solid. RITO REVENUE 5M2 OF 2536 PRE is a bull I am thinking about trading in for 6EM3 next year. Still top $EN and moderate frame, but better Marbling. I don't just love the way he looks, but he isn't terrible.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:13 am
by City Guy
SJB; Fair question. All I know about these animals I learned by critiquing their pics and videos and by examining EPDs. I have talked to Rick Calvo on the phone. I figure that with so many breeders over such a large continent, looking at pictures and studying EPDs is the way most folks would start the winnowing process.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:48 pm
by elkwc
WarEagle73 wrote:I've been looking ahead a bit to next year's breeding season. I took the jump and started tinkering with A.I. this year and had enough success that I want to keep trying. My goal is to use A.I. on the females I want to keep replacement heifers out of and clean up with a terminal bull. My question is about genetics.

Our direction is to have a cowherd that thrives on our fescue-based forage system with no supplemental feed. We've been practicing our version of MIG with good success for a couple of years now and we think we already have cows that fit the mold pretty well.

For the Angus breed I feel pretty good about my knowledge of genetics that will work. I am a fan of cattle like you see in Wye, Ohdle, and those type herds. Even some Pharo genetics as well as mainstream genetics that should work in a system like this. Other breeds, though, I am not as familiar with the genetics that fit that criteria. With Herefords you have Trask bloodlines still around, but who else? I feel pretty confident that there are lots of these breeders in the Red Angus breed and others, I just don't know of them.

Any thoughts on the topic would be greatly appreciated. We don't breed again until 2016, but I want to put together a game plan and starting hunting down semen in advance.


Not sure what Herefords do good on fescue as I've never had any experience with it. If it was me I would contact some breeders in areas that have fescue. One herd that has good, well muscled Herefords with older bloodlines is the Deewall's. Go to their web page and look at their cattle especially "Doc". They are linebred and perform well. But not sure if they have ever been in a fescue environment. But if you contacted them they would tell you.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:03 pm
by Ky hills
elkwc wrote:
WarEagle73 wrote:I've been looking ahead a bit to next year's breeding season. I took the jump and started tinkering with A.I. this year and had enough success that I want to keep trying. My goal is to use A.I. on the females I want to keep replacement heifers out of and clean up with a terminal bull. My question is about genetics.

Our direction is to have a cowherd that thrives on our fescue-based forage system with no supplemental feed. We've been practicing our version of MIG with good success for a couple of years now and we think we already have cows that fit the mold pretty well.

For the Angus breed I feel pretty good about my knowledge of genetics that will work. I am a fan of cattle like you see in Wye, Ohdle, and those type herds. Even some Pharo genetics as well as mainstream genetics that should work in a system like this. Other breeds, though, I am not as familiar with the genetics that fit that criteria. With Herefords you have Trask bloodlines still around, but who else? I feel pretty confident that there are lots of these breeders in the Red Angus breed and others, I just don't know of them.

Any thoughts on the topic would be greatly appreciated. We don't breed again until 2016, but I want to put together a game plan and starting hunting down semen in advance.


Not sure what Herefords do good on fescue as I've never had any experience with it. If it was me I would contact some breeders in areas that have fescue. One herd that has good, well muscled Herefords with older bloodlines is the Deewall's. Go to their web page and look at their cattle especially "Doc". They are linebred and perform well. But not sure if they have ever been in a fescue environment. But if you contacted them they would tell you.


I don't know what bloodlines they are, but I have some commercial Herefords that are doing pretty good on our fescue pastures, so I am sure there are quite a few around bred in that kind of environment.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:52 am
by City Guy
Again, my observations about Herefords just from reading, pics, videos and EPD as well as philosophy I would look at Moffett and Ellis in Illinois and Gerber in Indiana. I have visited Moffett Farm and observed the cattle and talked with Larry-third generation Polled Hereford breeder.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:11 am
by Supa Dexta
You should keep your mouth shut on promoting animals and farms you have zero history with. Its the same as you telling me what truck to get because you read the website and visited the salesman at the dealer, but never even took a test drive.

You just like to make your opinions known; opinions that are built on zero real world experience.

Re: Cow Genetics

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:27 pm
by WRFarms
Herefords will do fine on fescue pastures if they've been acclimated to it. We have some high percentage fescue pastures and from what I've seen the genetics are less an issue than the environment they were raised in. For example we have a number of Trust 100w cows, most were raised on fescue and they do extremely well, never losing condition and weaning good sized calves. The ones that were not raised on fescue went through a period of poor performance when we brought them in, they lost condition and weaned a below average calf that year. Now, they're all doing well. It's anecdotal, but we've brought in a wide variety of genetics in the last five years while trying to expand our program and I'm unable to pinpoint any lines that perform worse on fescue than others and for the 80 years prior to this where we were purely commercial we never had any problems with our fescue as long as the animals were raised on it.

Conventional wisdom says to use a bull developed in your area or one similar to yours to maximize environmental adaptation. That's always the safest course, but I think you can afford to prioritize other things over a theoretical genetic endophyte tolerance. If your cows were raised on fescue pastures and you raise their calves on them, those calves will do fine.

I think R294 was a good choice and I think EFBEEF SCHU-LAR PROFICIENT N093 is another Hereford option for you if you're trying to raise replacements that will wean calves at a high percentage of body weight. I don't particularly care for his steers but his daughters can raise a be nice of a calf and they're built a lot like your cows.