Right to work?

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Re: Right to work?

Postby callmefence » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:58 am

Caustic Burno wrote:That sounds about right if all you need an uneducated or unskilled workforce


If they had any sense or skills , they would be writing their own check. Not bellyaxhing about whoever was good enough to give them a job.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby ez14. » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:45 am

boondocks wrote:
ez14. wrote:
i am not arguing the EXTREMELY bad working conditions or the lives lost to them! i am arguing against what you state as fact that theft was the only (and necessary) way for anything better


I am really struggling to believe you are not just trolling here.
So, I guess when you negotiate the sale price of a cow, you are thereby stealing?
When you put in a counter-bid on a house, you are a thief?
When you don't pay the sticker price on a new car, you are a cheat?
There's not an emoji for my eyes rolling so hard they just fell out of my head, so I'll have to make do with an :roll: and a :bs:

By the way, I've been on these boards for years and have never used the BS flag until now. You earned it! :tiphat:[/quote]

Boondocks lets say we make an agreement for me to buy one of your cows for $1000 so you get them all rounded up in a small pen so i can pick which one i want and when i get there i only have $500 then i say i'm going to get all your cows for that much! (i assume you would say heck no) so then i stand guard around your cows and beat anybody who tries to buy them or take care of them leaving you with two choices sell all your cows to me for $500 or kill them all

would that make me a thieve???

i'm not trolling
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Bestoutwest » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:54 am

Caustic Burno wrote:Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.


Dam-n CB! That's the most real thing I've really long time. Some people just don't understand the real world. I have read a ton of history, and the biggest lesson I've learned is that we live in a world that is the way it is because a lot of people sacrificed a whole lot.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Bestoutwest » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:58 am

ez14. wrote:
boondocks wrote:
ez14. wrote:
i am not arguing the EXTREMELY bad working conditions or the lives lost to them! i am arguing against what you state as fact that theft was the only (and necessary) way for anything better


I am really struggling to believe you are not just trolling here.
So, I guess when you negotiate the sale price of a cow, you are thereby stealing?
When you put in a counter-bid on a house, you are a thief?
When you don't pay the sticker price on a new car, you are a cheat?
There's not an emoji for my eyes rolling so hard they just fell out of my head, so I'll have to make do with an :roll: and a :bs:

By the way, I've been on these boards for years and have never used the BS flag until now. You earned it! :tiphat:


Boondocks lets say we make an agreement for me to buy one of your cows for $1000 so you get them all rounded up in a small pen so i can pick which one i want and when i get there i only have $500 then i say i'm going to get all your cows for that much! (i assume you would say heck no) so then i stand guard around your cows and beat anybody who tries to buy them or take care of them leaving you with two choices sell all your cows to me for $500 or kill them all

would that make me a thieve???

i'm not trolling[/quote]

You're right, you're not trolling. You're just completely, whether it's willful or not, missing the point. Go back and read some history. Watch The Mine Wars, from PBS. Do it with an open mind. I think you'll finally see that the business man is not always so upstanding.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby callmefence » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:24 am

Caustic Burno wrote:Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.



A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...
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Re: Right to work?

Postby ez14. » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:33 am

Caustic Burno wrote:Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.

CB i might surprise you! i have never done anything that put one of my co-workers in danger!

no i have never faced hard times things are smooth sailing for me! though my boss would be in big legal trouble if the wrong people found out how many hours i work in a week! but that's non of their business!!!

CB and BD your eyes are half closed you only see what you want to see

what you see is the fact that there were hard times! people being miss treated! beaten and killed! under payed! and over worked!

what you are denying is the FACT that those company's were private property! that those men agreed to work there under those conditions (be going to work there you accept the terms) that they were trespassing when they would not leave the private properties! that they beat or killed anyone willing to work! and that there was opportunity other places


and yes redistribution of wealth is socialism!
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Re: Right to work?

Postby ez14. » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:34 am

callmefence wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.



A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...
:nod:
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Re: Right to work?

Postby ez14. » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:42 am

Bestoutwest wrote:
ez14. wrote:
boondocks wrote:i am not arguing the EXTREMELY bad working conditions or the lives lost to them! i am arguing against what you state as fact that theft was the only (and necessary) way for anything better


I am really struggling to believe you are not just trolling here.
So, I guess when you negotiate the sale price of a cow, you are thereby stealing?
When you put in a counter-bid on a house, you are a thief?
When you don't pay the sticker price on a new car, you are a cheat?
There's not an emoji for my eyes rolling so hard they just fell out of my head, so I'll have to make do with an :roll: and a :bs:

By the way, I've been on these boards for years and have never used the BS flag until now. You earned it! :tiphat:


Boondocks lets say we make an agreement for me to buy one of your cows for $1000 so you get them all rounded up in a small pen so i can pick which one i want and when i get there i only have $500 then i say i'm going to get all your cows for that much! (i assume you would say heck no) so then i stand guard around your cows and beat anybody who tries to buy them or take care of them leaving you with two choices sell all your cows to me for $500 or kill them all

would that make me a thieve???

i'm not trolling


You're right, you're not trolling. You're just completely, whether it's willful or not, missing the point. Go back and read some history. Watch The Mine Wars, from PBS. Do it with an open mind. I think you'll finally see that the business man is not always so upstanding.[/quote]


go watch "the men who built america"! and you are 100% right the business man is not always upstanding most people aren't we live in a evil world with people always trying to take advantage of others only worried about making them selves better off! (even in the unions :o ..... :roll: ) so you should grow a pair and learn to look out for yourself.... wow ain't that that a shocker quite a novel idea looking out for yourself
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Bestoutwest » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:52 am

ez14. wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:
ez14. wrote:
I am really struggling to believe you are not just trolling here.
So, I guess when you negotiate the sale price of a cow, you are thereby stealing?
When you put in a counter-bid on a house, you are a thief?
When you don't pay the sticker price on a new car, you are a cheat?
There's not an emoji for my eyes rolling so hard they just fell out of my head, so I'll have to make do with an :roll: and a :bs:

By the way, I've been on these boards for years and have never used the BS flag until now. You earned it! :tiphat:


Boondocks lets say we make an agreement for me to buy one of your cows for $1000 so you get them all rounded up in a small pen so i can pick which one i want and when i get there i only have $500 then i say i'm going to get all your cows for that much! (i assume you would say heck no) so then i stand guard around your cows and beat anybody who tries to buy them or take care of them leaving you with two choices sell all your cows to me for $500 or kill them all

would that make me a thieve???

i'm not trolling


You're right, you're not trolling. You're just completely, whether it's willful or not, missing the point. Go back and read some history. Watch The Mine Wars, from PBS. Do it with an open mind. I think you'll finally see that the business man is not always so upstanding.



go watch "the men who built america"! and you are 100% right the business man is not always upstanding most people aren't we live in a evil world with people always trying to take advantage of others only worried about making them selves better off! (even in the unions :o ..... :roll: ) so you should grow a pair and learn to look out for yourself.... wow ain't that that a shocker quite a novel idea looking out for yourself[/quote]

Well, I do have a pair, big man. I had a career, took the risk and went back to college to change careers. When I graduated, I moved over 2000 miles for a job that paid more. I've taken the risks to better myself. I am not a union worker, nor am I necessarily pro union. I have watched a union destroy my old hometown.

What I'm saying, and others have tried too, is this: In a historical context unions have had a need and a place at the table.

Learn your history. Read a book, several even. Quit being so stubborn that you're unable to admit that, possibly, you're wrong on something.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby JSCATTLE » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:10 am

Ez you have absolutely no idea how a union works.. I'm union USW to be exact . You are arguing with people who have been or seen both sides .
Its not mandatory to be in the union where I work . The unit I work on makes over a million dollars a day . There are 12 of us at any given time at work.. we are hardly stealing from the company. Not just anyone can do my job . If you screw up and blow up a tower you will level 3 miles around the plant. We make ethylene oxide . Safety is first in everything we do . No such thing as safety coming naturally . There are things that could be better but our company prefers us to be union .
We actually make a dollar or so less than the non union plant thats 2 miles down the road. Union makes it easier for the company to negotiate money. They don't have to go to each person to give raises etc. Unions do help when you get older and slower .. the company can't fire you 3 years before you are retirement age just to get out of paying you the retirement .. company's are just as vindictive as unions. It's a balance and I'm glad we have that balance . There are 1500 applications for 1 Job every time the company hires.. we make alot of money for working half a year . But the company makes alot more . We also work in conditions that expose you to chemicals that cause cancer and other ailments. So in my opinion safety comes first production second..
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:06 pm

callmefence wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.



A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...



Usually it was over letting his alligator mouth and brain overload his hummingbird butt.
It doesn't take a lot of snap to figure out the business end of a shovel or a pair of post hole diggers
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:11 pm

JSCATTLE wrote:Ez you have absolutely no idea how a union works.. I'm union USW to be exact . You are arguing with people who have been or seen both sides .
Its not mandatory to be in the union where I work . The unit I work on makes over a million dollars a day . There are 12 of us at any given time at work.. we are hardly stealing from the company. Not just anyone can do my job . If you screw up and blow up a tower you will level 3 miles around the plant. We make ethylene oxide . Safety is first in everything we do . No such thing as safety coming naturally . There are things that could be better but our company prefers us to be union .
We actually make a dollar or so less than the non union plant thats 2 miles down the road. Union makes it easier for the company to negotiate money. They don't have to go to each person to give raises etc. Unions do help when you get older and slower .. the company can't fire you 3 years before you are retirement age just to get out of paying you the retirement .. company's are just as vindictive as unions. It's a balance and I'm glad we have that balance . There are 1500 applications for 1 Job every time the company hires.. we make alot of money for working half a year . But the company makes alot more . We also work in conditions that expose you to chemicals that cause cancer and other ailments. So in my opinion safety comes first production second..

Couldn't have said it better and I retired a company man.
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.
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Grandpa always said never trust a banker,lawyer,preacher or guvmit man. They will steal from widows and orphans.

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Re: Right to work?

Postby callmefence » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:28 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
callmefence wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.



A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...



Usually it was over letting his alligator mouth and brain overload his hummingbird butt.
It doesn't take a lot of snap to figure out the business end of a shovel or a pair of post hole diggers


No but it takes a good amount to make a good living out of it.
I guarantee I've got way more skills than you.
I handle welding, carpentry , concrete, metal buildings, sales, payroll, hiring , firing, taxes, estimating, bidding, billing, scheduling I can keep on....
Keep nursing .....one trick pony

Your a perfect example of education and no sense
Last edited by callmefence on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:32 pm

You might but I highly doubt it cause you couldn't even get to work without the skilled labor in my field
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Re: Right to work?

Postby ez14. » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:39 pm

i find it funny that you all are accusing me of being a history denier yet you will not speak to the historical facts i have put up??



again Henry Fords view on the union

Labor unions
Ford was adamantly against labor unions. He explained his views on unions in Chapter 18 of My Life and Work.[33] He thought they were too heavily influenced by some leaders who, despite their ostensible good motives, would end up doing more harm than good for workers. Most wanted to restrict productivity as a means to foster employment, but Ford saw this as self-defeating because, in his view, productivity was necessary for any economic prosperity to exist.

He believed that productivity gains that obviated certain jobs would nevertheless stimulate the larger economy and thus grow new jobs elsewhere, whether within the same corporation or in others. Ford also believed that union leaders had a perverse incentive to foment perpetual socio-economic crisis as a way to maintain their own power. Meanwhile, he believed that smart managers had an incentive to do right by their workers, because doing so would maximize their own profits. Ford did acknowledge, however, that many managers were basically too bad at managing to understand this fact. But Ford believed that eventually, if good managers such as he could fend off the attacks of misguided people from both left and right (i.e., both socialists and bad-manager reactionaries), the good managers would create a socio-economic system wherein neither bad management nor bad unions could find enough support to continue existing.


i believe Henry Ford was a much smarter man then you or i! if any of us were smarter then him they would be a multi billionaire (around $199 billion with today's inflation)
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