Right to work?

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Workinonit Farm
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Workinonit Farm » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:30 pm

Well, for those who get their history from watching TV or movies, perhaps watching (or reading) The Grapes of Wrath (by John Steinbeck) might be enlightening, if not entertaining.

Unions have/had a place and a purpose just as EPD's have a place and a purpose.

Until a person has actually lived/experienced a situation for themselves, it is difficult for them to truly understand/"see" it.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby JSCATTLE » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
JSCATTLE wrote:Ez you have absolutely no idea how a union works.. I'm union USW to be exact . You are arguing with people who have been or seen both sides .
Its not mandatory to be in the union where I work . The unit I work on makes over a million dollars a day . There are 12 of us at any given time at work.. we are hardly stealing from the company. Not just anyone can do my job . If you screw up and blow up a tower you will level 3 miles around the plant. We make ethylene oxide . Safety is first in everything we do . No such thing as safety coming naturally . There are things that could be better but our company prefers us to be union .
We actually make a dollar or so less than the non union plant thats 2 miles down the road. Union makes it easier for the company to negotiate money. They don't have to go to each person to give raises etc. Unions do help when you get older and slower .. the company can't fire you 3 years before you are retirement age just to get out of paying you the retirement .. company's are just as vindictive as unions. It's a balance and I'm glad we have that balance . There are 1500 applications for 1 Job every time the company hires.. we make alot of money for working half a year . But the company makes alot more . We also work in conditions that expose you to chemicals that cause cancer and other ailments. So in my opinion safety comes first production second..

Couldn't have said it better and I retired a company man.
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.

No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .
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Re: Right to work?

Postby TexasBred » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:06 pm

JSCATTLE wrote:[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.

No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .[/quote]
The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby JSCATTLE » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:14 pm

TexasBred wrote:
JSCATTLE wrote:[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.

No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .

The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.[/quote]
That's all they want to know Is if you can learn or not . Keeps them from endangering the workers and the community with bad hires.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:24 pm

JSCATTLE wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
JSCATTLE wrote:[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.

No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .

The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.

That's all they want to know Is if you can learn or not . Keeps them from endangering the workers and the community with bad hires.[/quote]

I figured as much before I retired we had 2000 applications for 25 I&E apprentice jobs. Only 200 passed basic math skills to advance. Got down to sixty for the final after drug testing and physical ability to do the job requirements.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby greybeard » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:40 pm

Lenin and Marx would be so proud.
Up with the proletariat--down with the bourgeois!!

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Re: Right to work?

Postby boondocks » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:57 pm

ez, when you said you have never known hard times, that told me all I need to know. You've had CB tell you better than any documentary or book exactly why unions were important, especially early on. You've apparently never known grinding poverty or wondered where, despite all of your family's hard work, your next meal was coming from. Because I believe in karma, I hope that you never have to learn the hard way just how different things can seem when your life, and that of your loved ones, hangs on whether you can find enough pennies in the couch cushions to help put fifty cents in your mom's gas tank and all hope and pray she can make it to work one more day. And there's still a week to payday.

My son has been raised in relative comfort. But you better be d@mn sure he knows that he walks on the shoulders of giants--his grandparents, great-grandparents and others further back in time, scrapping and clawing, each successive generation eking out just a little better life for the next generation, than what they had. To the best of my ability, we've tried to raise him to honor the sacrifices of everyone who helped pave his way, many of whom were other people's ancestors. Heck, maybe even CB's. (Just not yours, I guess. Sorry, I'll make sure they're scratched from the list of people who ever thought they had a thing in common with their fellow working stiffs).

And, oh yeah, Henry Ford was ahead of his time (well,other than his virulent racist and anti-Semitic views https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... a5cfb2dd16), but his workplace policies were at least in part self-interested (he knew that productivity would increase if his workers weren't dead on their feet), and were driven by the LABOR UNREST at the time. Yes, factory workers were starting to push back and argue that they should get a fair shake. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -hour-week. Ol' Henry realized that he could avoid a lot of headaches; gain productivity; score a PR coup; and SELL MORE CARS with a decent wage and a 5 day week. (Do I really need to tell you that those changes didn't immediately get adopted by every company in every industry? Yes. Yes, I probably do).

I'd be really curious (well, not really, but I'll feign it) to hear your tortured (tortuous? maybe both...) view on exactly what the 146 people (mostly women and children) who died at the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist fire did to deserve it. As you are such a student of history, I'm sure you'll recall that the factory's exits (it occupied floors 8-10 of the Asch Building in NYC) were locked by management (as was common at the time, to prevent workers taking breaks). Here's a fun little excerpt of the event from a bystander:


"One Saturday afternoon in March of that year—March 25, to be precise—I was sitting at one of the reading tables in the old Astor Library....I was deeply engrossed in my book when I became aware of fire engines racing past the building...I ran out to see what was happening, and followed crowds of people to the scene of the fire.

A few blocks away, the Asch Building at the corner of Washington Place and Greene Street was ablaze. When we arrived at the scene, the police had thrown up a cordon around the area and the firemen were helplessly fighting the blaze. The eighth, ninth, and tenth stories of the building were now an enormous roaring cornice of flames.

Word had spread through the East Side, by some magic of terror, that the plant of the Triangle Waist Company was on fire and that several hundred workers were trapped. Horrified and helpless, the crowds — I among them — looked up at the burning building, saw girl after girl appear at the reddened windows, pause for a terrified moment, and then leap to the pavement below, to land as mangled, bloody pulp. This went on for what seemed a ghastly eternity. Occasionally a girl who had hesitated too long was licked by pursuing flames and, screaming with clothing and hair ablaze, plunged like a living torch to the street. Life nets held by the firemen were torn by the impact of the falling bodies.

The emotions of the crowd were indescribable. Women were hysterical, scores fainted; men wept as, in paroxysms of frenzy, they hurled themselves against the police lines."


But I guess the workers "had it coming," since they had "accepted" the terms of their employment! ("Why didn't they just move?" I can hear you cry. Most were recent immigrants in their teens and early 20s. They HAD moved. To THERE! For what they hoped was a better life).

(Final footnote: Henry Ford's generous-for-the-time policies were enacted in 1926, well after the labor unrest that was caused by events like the above fire (which led to the Intl Ladies Garment Workers Union, which worked for safer working conditions). Labor pressures played a big role in Ford's "generosity").
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Re: Right to work?

Postby hurleyjd » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:34 pm

boondocks wrote:ez, when you said you have never known hard times, that told me all I need to know. You've had CB tell you better than any documentary or book exactly why unions were important, especially early on. You've apparently never known grinding poverty or wondered where, despite all of your family's hard work, your next meal was coming from. Because I believe in karma, I hope that you never have to learn the hard way just how different things can seem when your life, and that of your loved ones, hangs on whether you can find enough pennies in the couch cushions to help put fifty cents in your mom's gas tank and all hope and pray she can make it to work one more day. And there's still a week to payday.

My son has been raised in relative comfort. But you better be d@mn sure he knows that he walks on the shoulders of giants--his grandparents, great-grandparents and others further back in time, scrapping and clawing, each successive generation eking out just a little better life for the next generation, than what they had. To the best of my ability, we've tried to raise him to honor the sacrifices of everyone who helped pave his way, many of whom were other people's ancestors. Heck, maybe even CB's. (Just not yours, I guess. Sorry, I'll make sure they're scratched from the list of people who ever thought they had a thing in common with their fellow working stiffs).

And, oh yeah, Henry Ford was ahead of his time (well,other than his virulent racist and anti-Semitic views https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... a5cfb2dd16), but his workplace policies were at least in part self-interested (he knew that productivity would increase if his workers weren't dead on their feet), and were driven by the LABOR UNREST at the time. Yes, factory workers were starting to push back and argue that they should get a fair shake. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -hour-week. Ol' Henry realized that he could avoid a lot of headaches; gain productivity; score a PR coup; and SELL MORE CARS with a decent wage and a 5 day week. (Do I really need to tell you that those changes didn't immediately get adopted by every company in every industry? Yes. Yes, I probably do).

I'd be really curious (well, not really, but I'll feign it) to hear your tortured (tortuous? maybe both...) view on exactly what the 146 people (mostly women and children) who died at the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist fire did to deserve it. As you are such a student of history, I'm sure you'll recall that the factory's exits (it occupied floors 8-10 of the Asch Building in NYC) were locked by management (as was common at the time, to prevent workers taking breaks). Here's a fun little excerpt of the event from a bystander:


"One Saturday afternoon in March of that year—March 25, to be precise—I was sitting at one of the reading tables in the old Astor Library....I was deeply engrossed in my book when I became aware of fire engines racing past the building...I ran out to see what was happening, and followed crowds of people to the scene of the fire.

A few blocks away, the Asch Building at the corner of Washington Place and Greene Street was ablaze. When we arrived at the scene, the police had thrown up a cordon around the area and the firemen were helplessly fighting the blaze. The eighth, ninth, and tenth stories of the building were now an enormous roaring cornice of flames.

Word had spread through the East Side, by some magic of terror, that the plant of the Triangle Waist Company was on fire and that several hundred workers were trapped. Horrified and helpless, the crowds — I among them — looked up at the burning building, saw girl after girl appear at the reddened windows, pause for a terrified moment, and then leap to the pavement below, to land as mangled, bloody pulp. This went on for what seemed a ghastly eternity. Occasionally a girl who had hesitated too long was licked by pursuing flames and, screaming with clothing and hair ablaze, plunged like a living torch to the street. Life nets held by the firemen were torn by the impact of the falling bodies.

The emotions of the crowd were indescribable. Women were hysterical, scores fainted; men wept as, in paroxysms of frenzy, they hurled themselves against the police lines."


But I guess the workers "had it coming," since they had "accepted" the terms of their employment! ("Why didn't they just move?" I can hear you cry. Most were recent immigrants in their teens and early 20s. They HAD moved. To THERE! For what they hoped was a better life).

(Final footnote: Henry Ford's generous-for-the-time policies were enacted in 1926, well after the labor unrest that was caused by events like the above fire (which led to the Intl Ladies Garment Workers Union, which worked for safer working conditions). Labor pressures played a big role in Ford's "generosity").


Old Henry was stupid when it come to being a father to Edsel never really appreciated him until Edsel died with cancer. Then old Henry lost all interest in life.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Ky cowboy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:29 am

So many spoon feds out there don't have a clue what it took to get where we are at now. I've had it good compared but my parents did like you boonedocks. Educated me to respect where we came from Ang fight like be nice to make it better for my kids.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby boondocks » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:29 am

Ky cowboy wrote:So many spoon feds out there don't have a clue what it took to get where we are at now. I've had it good compared but my parents did like you boonedocks. Educated me to respect where we came from Ang fight like be nice to make it better for my kids.


:clap: You get it.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby ddd75 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:50 am

TexasBred wrote:
JSCATTLE wrote:[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.

No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .

The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.[/quote]


i'd say a degree nowadays just means you know how to get in debt. :lol2:
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Re: Right to work?

Postby HDRider » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:00 am

School is now in session...
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Re: Right to work?

Postby callmefence » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:18 am

Ky cowboy wrote:So many spoon feds out there don't have a clue what it took to get where we are at now. I've had it good compared but my parents did like you boonedocks. Educated me to respect where we came from Ang fight like be nice to make it better for my kids.


Some folks no doubt have different ideas about fighting like he'll .

There's one group that thinks it means to bytch and bellyache. Protest and whine.

One thinks you work as hard as it takes to forge your on way. And be strong enough to stand alone and not dependent on anyone.
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Re: Right to work?

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:38 am

callmefence wrote:
Ky cowboy wrote:So many spoon feds out there don't have a clue what it took to get where we are at now. I've had it good compared but my parents did like you boonedocks. Educated me to respect where we came from Ang fight like be nice to make it better for my kids.


Some folks no doubt have different ideas about fighting like he'll .

There's one group that thinks it means to bytch and bellyache. Protest and whine.

One thinks you work as hard as it takes to forge your on way. And be strong enough to stand alone and not dependent on anyone.



Your right the union did forge the way for the American way of life, the majority of them had just returned from a World War and were determined that a working man had a rights as well
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Re: Right to work?

Postby sim.-ang.king » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:47 am

I wonder how my family ever survived without unions protecting them and fighting for their rights for the past 300 years of farming this Country, till the government tried to "help" in the 20's and 30's. It's been down hill since then.
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