This one's for Nesikep

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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Bestoutwest » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:08 pm

callmefence wrote:I bow my head to pray, I stand at attention to anthem. I pay my taxes. I don't cheat on my wife. I never even cheated on a girlfriend. I don't lie. I apologize when I'm wrong( which is a lot) I am very polite unless you're rude to me then I can be very impolite. I open doors for women. And I say sir and ma'am.
Because that's how I was raised.
It's customary in this country to stand at attention for the anthem. To not do so is bad manners and shows sorry upbringing.
Most of these people you are supporting don't know what their even protesting. And that they don't have the right to do it at work should their employers. The NFL forbid it.



You missed my point completely. Because someone doesn't stand for a song that we, as a society, have deemed to be sanctified, they are automatically a bad person. We know nothing more about this person than this simple fact that they do not stand for this song. But, since this song is essential to the fabric of America, they must be inherently evil. And because a person goes to church every week and stands for the anthem, they are obviously a good person because they follow a specific guideline that states, "in a blink of an eye" assumption of this person's character, they are a good person. Now, we know nothing of this second person's behavior behind closed doors either. They could beat their children and wife. They could cheat on her. They could steal from their fellow employees, etc, etc, etc. It is human nature to make broad, quick assumptions of a person's character, and evolutionarily this may serve us well, but is it fair?

Secondly, why do you feel the need to defend yourself? I hope you don't feel that I insinuated that all people who fit the church going, self employed group are a bunch of crooks. I don't believe that for a second. Nor would I judge you a bad person by minimal interactions on an internet forum. They, like all segments of society have their bad along with their good. I used that as an example because that type of person is one that we can all relate to as we all know a person that fits that description.

Finally, I would like to clarify that I do not support, nor do I condemn the individuals who kneel during the anthem. Rather I support their first amendment right to do so. There is a clear distinction. And while they are at work, it is obvious that their employers allow them to, and support their decision to, voice their opinion. Likewise, I support the right of white supremacists to peacefully march through the streets of any town in America spouting off about other races-as long as it ends at verbal diarrhea and doesn't progress to violence. While I do not support their message in any way, shape, or form, they have the same rights to free speech that you and I do. Whether anyone listens is an entirely different debate.

Take care
Last edited by Bestoutwest on Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:12 pm

Nesikep wrote:I don't quite see why it's for me.. but it was a well thought out piece :)

There are things that confuse me though.. Kneel to pray to be respectful, stand for the anthem to be respectful, and then lets get into hats.. on or off?
https://youtu.be/NNkkko4vlBs (Trigger warning, people who need a safe space may not like this piece from George Carlin)

When it all comes down to it, respect and patriotism go beyond all this symbolic crap, it's what you DO that matters.. you know, the choices you make on a day to day basis that affect how your country will be viewed, etc.


George Carlin. There will never be another like him and it is my understanding he wrote his own comedy.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Nesikep » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Nesikep wrote:I don't quite see why it's for me.. but it was a well thought out piece :)

There are things that confuse me though.. Kneel to pray to be respectful, stand for the anthem to be respectful, and then lets get into hats.. on or off?
https://youtu.be/NNkkko4vlBs (Trigger warning, people who need a safe space may not like this piece from George Carlin)

When it all comes down to it, respect and patriotism go beyond all this symbolic crap, it's what you DO that matters.. you know, the choices you make on a day to day basis that affect how your country will be viewed, etc.


George Carlin. There will never be another like him and it is my understanding he wrote his own comedy.

He had the balls to say a lot of things before it was popular to say them..
Louis CK has an excellent interview where he describes how Carlin influenced him.. He said for his first 10 years of doing standup, he was stuck, he had some jokes that were good, etc, but just nothing ever seemed to really take off. He started observing Carlin, and found that every year or two on his HBO shows, every bit of content was new (and all written by Carlin).. At the end of a tour, all the old stuff would go in the trash, and he's start off with a clean slate. Louis CK said it took an incredible courage to throw his old material away and have to start fresh, but in the end it worked.. he's got a number of his own HBO shows too... I just find he doesn't have the political insight Carlin did, or at least not at this point in his career.. Carlin didn't care who he offended.. the left, the right, he'd stab at any of them.

Here he's poking at the liberals.. I don't think there are too many F bombs in this one
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby callmefence » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:25 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
callmefence wrote:I bow my head to pray, I stand at attention to anthem. I pay my taxes. I don't cheat on my wife. I never even cheated on a girlfriend. I don't lie. I apologize when I'm wrong( which is a lot) I am very polite unless you're rude to me then I can be very impolite. I open doors for women. And I say sir and ma'am.
Because that's how I was raised.
It's customary in this country to stand at attention for the anthem. To not do so is bad manners and shows sorry upbringing.
Most of these people you are supporting don't know what their even protesting. And that they don't have the right to do it at work should their employers. The NFL forbid it.



You missed my point completely. Because someone doesn't stand for a song that we, as a society, have deemed to be sanctified, they are automatically a bad person. We know nothing more about this person than this simple fact that they do not stand for this song. But, since this song is essential to the fabric of America, they must be inherently evil. And because a person goes to church every week and stands for the anthem, they are obviously a good person because they follow a specific guideline that states, "in a blink of an eye" assumption of this person's character, they are a good person. Now, we know nothing of this second person's behavior behind closed doors either. They could beat their children and wife. They could cheat on her. They could steal from their fellow employees, etc, etc, etc. It is human nature to make broad, quick assumptions of a person's character, and evolutionarily this may serve us well, but is it fair?

Secondly, why do you feel the need to defend yourself? I hope you don't feel that I insinuated that all people who fit the church going, self employed group are a bunch of crooks. I don't believe that for a second. Nor would I judge you a bad person by minimal interactions on an internet forum. They, like all segments of society have their bad along with their good. I used that as an example because that type of person is one that we can all relate to as we all know a person that fits that description.

Finally, I would like to clarify that I do not support, nor do I condemn the individuals who kneel during the anthem. Rather I support their first amendment right to do so. There is a clear distinction. And while they are at work, it is obvious that their employers allow them to, and support their decision to, voice their opinion. Likewise, I support the right of white supremacists to peacefully march through the streets of any town in America spouting off about other races-as long as it ends at verbal diarrhea and doesn't progress to violence. While I do not support their message in any way, shape, or form, they have the same rights to free speech that you and I do. Whether anyone listens is an entirely different debate.

Take care


You missed my point
It'd not about rights its about manners.
When you go in someones house you wipe your feet and remove your hat.Because it's customary and good manners. And in most cases you don't talk politics in mixed company. because it's bad manners.These players should do their protesting on their own stage and their own dime.
No it doesn't mean that they are bad people. It means they where raised by bad people. Because a good American father would wear his sons azz out for kneeling down during the national anthem.
As for the NFL. They will see the light or they will suffer greatly.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Ky hills » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:29 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:I like how he talks about not doing something b/c it's unchristian yet drops the F-bomb.

And this video is a just a rehash of the redneck that sits in the truck and talks.

What I'm wondering is how many good, white, Christians are there that rail against those taking money out of the system but they themselves are some sort of government assistance? How many cheat on their wives? How many good "patriots" that stand for the anthem and all that rah, rah, go America stuff cheat on their taxes? Which is essentially handicapping the country, and their state and community, that they profess to love. Or shop in a state that doesn't have sales tax to save a buck? How much money does that Prather guy give to the Wounded Warrior fund? The Pat Tillman Foundation or the Chris Kyle Foundation? Or if he doesn't donate, does he volunteer somewhere to help those that are in need of some sort of assistance? Have these good "Patriots" that stand at the anthem done anything more for their country than to just pay their taxes or do they do community service and make a difference?

What I'm getting at is that just because someone stands for the anthem, or goes to church every week does not make them a good person. In the same light a person that kneels, peacefully, at the anthem to support a cause which they think needs their support is not a bad person.


Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:44 pm

Ky hills wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:I like how he talks about not doing something b/c it's unchristian yet drops the F-bomb.

And this video is a just a rehash of the redneck that sits in the truck and talks.

What I'm wondering is how many good, white, Christians are there that rail against those taking money out of the system but they themselves are some sort of government assistance? How many cheat on their wives? How many good "patriots" that stand for the anthem and all that rah, rah, go America stuff cheat on their taxes? Which is essentially handicapping the country, and their state and community, that they profess to love. Or shop in a state that doesn't have sales tax to save a buck? How much money does that Prather guy give to the Wounded Warrior fund? The Pat Tillman Foundation or the Chris Kyle Foundation? Or if he doesn't donate, does he volunteer somewhere to help those that are in need of some sort of assistance? Have these good "Patriots" that stand at the anthem done anything more for their country than to just pay their taxes or do they do community service and make a difference?

What I'm getting at is that just because someone stands for the anthem, or goes to church every week does not make them a good person. In the same light a person that kneels, peacefully, at the anthem to support a cause which they think needs their support is not a bad person.


Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.


I find that last one the hardest, there's things I see and read daily that I can't comprehend.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Ky hills » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:06 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Ky hills wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:I like how he talks about not doing something b/c it's unchristian yet drops the F-bomb.

And this video is a just a rehash of the redneck that sits in the truck and talks.

What I'm wondering is how many good, white, Christians are there that rail against those taking money out of the system but they themselves are some sort of government assistance? How many cheat on their wives? How many good "patriots" that stand for the anthem and all that rah, rah, go America stuff cheat on their taxes? Which is essentially handicapping the country, and their state and community, that they profess to love. Or shop in a state that doesn't have sales tax to save a buck? How much money does that Prather guy give to the Wounded Warrior fund? The Pat Tillman Foundation or the Chris Kyle Foundation? Or if he doesn't donate, does he volunteer somewhere to help those that are in need of some sort of assistance? Have these good "Patriots" that stand at the anthem done anything more for their country than to just pay their taxes or do they do community service and make a difference?

What I'm getting at is that just because someone stands for the anthem, or goes to church every week does not make them a good person. In the same light a person that kneels, peacefully, at the anthem to support a cause which they think needs their support is not a bad person.


Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.


I find that last one the hardest, there's things I see and read daily that I can't comprehend.


I find some things hard to comprehend too, we each have our limits no doubt. I guess when I say understanding I am not meaning justification, I'm meaning having compassion and knowing that each of us, myself included are human beings and as such we are flawed creatures on our own.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby TexasBred » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:06 pm

Ky hills wrote:

Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.

Pretty sure I've mentioned on here a couple of times that I've got an old uncle (95) that claims to be an athiest. Don't know if I've ever seen him in a church but for a funeral maybe. But if I had a choice for a mentor and and example for any of my kids it would be him. He lives the teachings of Jesus and doesn't even know it. I know others that have reserved seats in church buildings that reprobates once the think they have fulfilled their Sunday obligation.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Nesikep » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:27 pm

TexasBred wrote:
Ky hills wrote:

Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.

Pretty sure I've mentioned on here a couple of times that I've got an old uncle (95) that claims to be an athiest. Don't know if I've ever seen him in a church but for a funeral maybe. But if I had a choice for a mentor and and example for any of my kids it would be him. He lives the teachings of Jesus and doesn't even know it. I know others that have reserved seats in church buildings that reprobates once the think they have fulfilled their Sunday obligation.

It just happens to be that some of my best friends that have passed away now were perhaps atheist, or agnostic, either way, I had never heard of them refer to anything religious. In my life I strive to be as generous as they were to me.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby boondocks » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:09 pm

Ky hills wrote:
Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.


You raise good points that are applicable to the kneeling debate. Does not their intent matter? Does not body language matter? Many (maybe most?) (including Kapernick) are devout Christians. They are kneeling in a penitent pose, of supplication. Indeed, the stance is very similar to that taken by Tebow when he routinely dropped to his knee. In interviews they have said that they love their country, and want it to do better, for police to stop being trigger-happy (something many, if not most of us, on here have agreed is a problem).

It is not a militant "f u" stance. Their fists aren't raised, their backs are not turned. They want their country to live up to its ideals. Kneeling, in a humble way. I really don't see any disrespect. I have seen much more disrespectful behavior. (Hoods and tiki torches, worn and carried by people protesting in FAVOR of the people who took up ARMS against that same flag!)

And I think it's just ridiculous to say that the people kneeling don't know why they're doing it. :roll:
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Ky hills » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:07 am

boondocks wrote:
Ky hills wrote:
Not intending to take this further into a religious discussion, but feel it necessary to say that you are correct in your assessment that just because someone goes to church every week or even every time the door is open, doesn't make them a good person. Likewise the fact that someone doesn't go to church does not mean that they are not a good person. It is what is in each individuals heart that matters. We will all be held accountable for what is in our hearts and the decisions that we do or don't make. If a person's heart is truly invested in their faith, then they should ideally strive to live that example, by showing kindness, love, honesty and understanding.


You raise good points that are applicable to the kneeling debate. Does not their intent matter? Does not body language matter? Many (maybe most?) (including Kapernick) are devout Christians. They are kneeling in a penitent pose, of supplication. Indeed, the stance is very similar to that taken by Tebow when he routinely dropped to his knee. In interviews they have said that they love their country, and want it to do better, for police to stop being trigger-happy (something many, if not most of us, on here have agreed is a problem).

It is not a militant "f u" stance. Their fists aren't raised, their backs are not turned. They want their country to live up to its ideals. Kneeling, in a humble way. I really don't see any disrespect. I have seen much more disrespectful behavior. (Hoods and tiki torches, worn and carried by people protesting in FAVOR of the people who took up ARMS against that same flag!)

And I think it's just ridiculous to say that the people kneeling don't know why they're doing it. :roll:


I have to admit that I must be living under a rock, because I really haven't followed the stories abut the kneeling and know nothing about the NFL.
I probably have shared on this open forum that I have been taking a lead role at a small country church since our Pastor retired, until they can find another. I don't consider myself a preacher, or even a layman, just one who is studying and sharing what I understand. I have learned in life to take folks at their word, until you have reason not to. As to the kneeling, I suppose their intent does matter, as would body language, but I do feel that a different avenue of protest would be better. I nor any other person has the right to judge their claims of spirituality. I have seen injustices in several forms, and acknowledge that it does exist. However, I also know that I love this country and would not want to live this life anywhere else. Even with the reality that injustice occurs, this is still a great country. I can think of a phrase that fits this situation, United We Stand. I really don't see this as history making for the better like the powerful statements made by Rosa Parks, or Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby boondocks » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:30 am

Ky hills wrote:
I have to admit that I must be living under a rock, because I really haven't followed the stories abut the kneeling and know nothing about the NFL.
I probably have shared on this open forum that I have been taking a lead role at a small country church since our Pastor retired, until they can find another. I don't consider myself a preacher, or even a layman, just one who is studying and sharing what I understand. I have learned in life to take folks at their word, until you have reason not to. As to the kneeling, I suppose their intent does matter, as would body language, but I do feel that a different avenue of protest would be better. I nor any other person has the right to judge their claims of spirituality. I have seen injustices in several forms, and acknowledge that it does exist. However, I also know that I love this country and would not want to live this life anywhere else. Even with the reality that injustice occurs, this is still a great country. I can think of a phrase that fits this situation, United We Stand. I really don't see this as history making for the better like the powerful statements made by Rosa Parks, or Martin Luther King Jr.


On the contrary. This is exactly in keeping with the civil right's movement's actions of passive resistance. MLK (a preacher as well, of course) knew that (as with Gandhi) peaceful protests were the most effective. Famous picture of him kneeling: http://time.com/4955717/trump-protests- ... -kneeling/

Background: Kaepernick was troubled by police shootings and had initially remained seated during the anthem. He was then speaking with Nate Boyer, a Green Beret from Texas, who explained to him how it made him feel and suggested he kneel to express his concerns instead:
"Prior to the start of the 2016 NFL regular season, Kaepernick and Boyer met to discuss the anthem protest. As a result of that meeting, Kaepernick stopped sitting on the bench during the anthem. Instead, he adopted a new, but now well-known, gesture: taking a knee as most of his teammates stood alongside him. One of Kaepernick’s teammates, safety Eric Reid, joined him in kneeling during the anthem. In an op-ed for the New York Times published Monday afternoon, Reid explained that Boyer changed his and Kaepernick’s minds about the specific pose used in protest. “We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture,” Reid wrote. “I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.”

Dropping to one knee, in most settings, is seen as a respectful gesture. In religions around the world, people kneel during prayer; it’s widely considered a symbol of reverence in almost any setting—except when it has happened during the national anthem at a sporting event in the past year. When people, including the president, declare that players who take a knee during the anthem are disrespecting the troops, the flag, or the country, they’re speaking out against a gesture that a Green Beret helped popularize." https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily- ... est-kneel/
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby ChrisB » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:27 pm

Some really good posts on here by many people but a few in particular by CallMeFence, Ky Hills, and Boondocks stood out to me. Thanks!
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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby greybeard » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:36 pm

:(

"A U.S. Military Academy graduate who posed with a sign reading “Communism will win” and posted pro-Colin Kaepernick messages on social media is now being ripped by the former Democratic congressman who helped him get into the prestigious school.

Ex-Rep. Jason Altmire of Pennsylvania, who served from 2007 to 2013, told The Daily Caller that Second Lt. Spenser Rapone – who is now the focus of an Army investigation – has let him down.

“Several years ago, I met Spenser Rapone when he was a high school student seeking an appointment to West Point,” Altmire said. “At the time, he was an outstanding, well-rounded student who came from a good family. I have not been in touch with him in the years since the appointment, and I was shocked and extremely disappointed in the recent reports of his indefensible actions.”

http://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army ... r-uniform/

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Re: This one's for Nesikep

Postby Workinonit Farm » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:11 pm

:shock:

Wow. :(
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