Trump returning public lands in Utah

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Bright Raven
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:32 pm

sim.-ang.king wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:There is a term for the concept:

Empire-building.

the practice of obtaining more power, responsibility, or staff within an organization for the purposes of (making more money).

It is rampant in government when budgets are flush. It also occurs in private corporations.

The General Schedule or GS personnel scale is predicated on level of responsibility. That translates to how many subordinates you have. If a manager aspires to a higher GS level (more money), they must add subordinates. There is an exception for non-managerial professionals, for example, a toxicologist, veterinarian, medical doctor, engineer, etc. Those positions have higher GS ratings that are not based on number of subordinates.

The means to control it have long been known. James Madison was known for coining the term - tighten the purse strings. Anyone who has sat on the inside (I have) is aware. If you have watched, administration after administration has failed to find the courage to truly reinvent government based on a model that controls waste.

Ever since FDR the government has gone from running it like a business and working with what they take in, too trying to grow government on borrowed money and stolen land.


One can spend precious time lamenting over what the government does wrong, when it started, who is responsible and how do you fix it. It is not productive. The nation has chosen sides, one side (the right) points at the other side (the left) and the other side simply points back. The fact is, neither side has demonstrated they can set a new course. Wonder why that is?
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Rafter S » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:44 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
sim.-ang.king wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:There is a term for the concept:

Empire-building.

the practice of obtaining more power, responsibility, or staff within an organization for the purposes of (making more money).

It is rampant in government when budgets are flush. It also occurs in private corporations.

The General Schedule or GS personnel scale is predicated on level of responsibility. That translates to how many subordinates you have. If a manager aspires to a higher GS level (more money), they must add subordinates. There is an exception for non-managerial professionals, for example, a toxicologist, veterinarian, medical doctor, engineer, etc. Those positions have higher GS ratings that are not based on number of subordinates.

The means to control it have long been known. James Madison was known for coining the term - tighten the purse strings. Anyone who has sat on the inside (I have) is aware. If you have watched, administration after administration has failed to find the courage to truly reinvent government based on a model that controls waste.

Ever since FDR the government has gone from running it like a business and working with what they take in, too trying to grow government on borrowed money and stolen land.


One can spend precious time lamenting over what the government does wrong, when it started, who is responsible and how do you fix it. It is not productive. The nation has chosen sides, one side (the right) points at the other side (the left) and the other side simply points back. The fact is, neither side has demonstrated they can set a new course. Wonder why that is?


Because they can't stop pointing fingers long enough to work together to get something done.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bestoutwest » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:09 pm

Rafter S wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
sim.-ang.king wrote:Ever since FDR the government has gone from running it like a business and working with what they take in, too trying to grow government on borrowed money and stolen land.


One can spend precious time lamenting over what the government does wrong, when it started, who is responsible and how do you fix it. It is not productive. The nation has chosen sides, one side (the right) points at the other side (the left) and the other side simply points back. The fact is, neither side has demonstrated they can set a new course. Wonder why that is?


Because they can't stop pointing fingers long enough to work together to get something done.



These last two posts are spot on. We need both sides to keep one side from hoarding too much from the public coffers and the other from taking too much to put in those same coffers. But they need to work together. Until that happens, we're all going to suffer.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Rafter S » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:31 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
Rafter S wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
One can spend precious time lamenting over what the government does wrong, when it started, who is responsible and how do you fix it. It is not productive. The nation has chosen sides, one side (the right) points at the other side (the left) and the other side simply points back. The fact is, neither side has demonstrated they can set a new course. Wonder why that is?


Because they can't stop pointing fingers long enough to work together to get something done.



These last two posts are spot on. We need both sides to keep one side from hoarding too much from the public coffers and the other from taking too much to put in those same coffers. But they need to work together. Until that happens, we're all going to suffer.


I know we aren't supposed to get too heavily into politics here, and I don't want to cross that line, but does anyone know when or why Congress got so partisan? I know there have been political parties going back to George Washington (although if I recall my history lessons he didn't belong to one), but they used to not vote strictly on party lines like they usually do now. I seem to remember it starting about the time Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House, but I'm not sure. (And I'm not bashing him. I usually lean way to the conservative side of politics, although I don't blindly follow any party.)
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:37 pm

Rafter S wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:
Rafter S wrote:
Because they can't stop pointing fingers long enough to work together to get something done.



These last two posts are spot on. We need both sides to keep one side from hoarding too much from the public coffers and the other from taking too much to put in those same coffers. But they need to work together. Until that happens, we're all going to suffer.


I know we aren't supposed to get too heavily into politics here, and I don't want to cross that line, but does anyone know when or why Congress got so partisan? I know there have been political parties going back to George Washington (although if I recall my history lessons he didn't belong to one), but they used to not vote strictly on party lines like they usually do now. I seem to remember it starting about the time Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House, but I'm not sure. (And I'm not bashing him. I usually lean way to the conservative side of politics, although I don't blindly follow any party.)


You and I seem to have the same recollection. Newt Gingrich was a magician as Speaker. He was very effective at keeping it along party lines. However, it goes back further. In fact, it predates our government. The term "whip" goes back to our British roots:

In countries influenced by the British political system, a whip is an official of a political party whose task is to ensure party discipline in a legislature. Whips are the party's "enforcers"; they invite their fellow legislators to attend voting sessions and to vote according to the official party policy.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Caustic Burno » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:38 pm

I believe the media propaganda has divided us as much if not more so since the civil war.
There is 24 hours a day of opinion to ones leanings not news.
Critical thinking doesn’t fit in today’s society.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:44 pm

The problem started when the US of A declared it's independence from England. Everyone in this country that was loyal to England needed killing or shipped back. We wouldn't have the spineless liberals to worry about today.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:50 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:The problem started when the US of A declared it's independence from England. Everyone in this country that was loyal to England needed killing or shipped back. We wouldn't have the spineless liberals to worry about today.


Well. I am glad my ancestors were of German descent.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bestoutwest » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:54 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:The problem started when the US of A declared it's independence from England. Everyone in this country that was loyal to England needed killing or shipped back. We wouldn't have the spineless liberals to worry about today.


Wow, Grit, way to show some restraint.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:58 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:The problem started when the US of A declared it's independence from England. Everyone in this country that was loyal to England needed killing or shipped back. We wouldn't have the spineless liberals to worry about today.


Wow, Grit, way to show some restraint.


He provides affirmation of CB's comment which is spot on. There is not critical or constructive thought in Vince's comment. It is strictly rhetoric. What useful comes from that announcement?
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bestoutwest » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:00 pm

Rafter S wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:
Rafter S wrote:
Because they can't stop pointing fingers long enough to work together to get something done.



These last two posts are spot on. We need both sides to keep one side from hoarding too much from the public coffers and the other from taking too much to put in those same coffers. But they need to work together. Until that happens, we're all going to suffer.


I know we aren't supposed to get too heavily into politics here, and I don't want to cross that line, but does anyone know when or why Congress got so partisan? I know there have been political parties going back to George Washington (although if I recall my history lessons he didn't belong to one), but they used to not vote strictly on party lines like they usually do now. I seem to remember it starting about the time Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House, but I'm not sure. (And I'm not bashing him. I usually lean way to the conservative side of politics, although I don't blindly follow any party.)


I've read about the Civil War politics and it was the same then. It might have improved, but things are cyclical. Like CB, I agree the media is doing nothing to help it. CNN is wholeheartedly against Trump, and Fox News is wholeheartedly against anything considered liberal. Facebook is being manned by crazy Russians successfully fooling anyone willing to believe what they read online from groups that have a similar belief system, and then we have others who only believe what comes out of Trump's mouth and everything else is 'fake news.' It's a scary world we live in.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby HDRider » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:07 pm

Fake news is real
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby bball » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:41 pm

HDRider wrote:Fake news is real


Perception is reality.

The National Council for Excellence in Critical Thinking defines critical thinking as an “intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action.” The process tends to help us judge and evaluate situations based on understanding the related data, analyze it, build a clear understanding of the problem, choose the proper solution, and take actions based on the established solution.

Analyzing and synthesizing information gathered via communication becomes a real challenge in today's climate. Takes tremendous time and effort to process truth from fiction.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:46 pm

bball wrote:
HDRider wrote:Fake news is real


Perception is reality.




The truth is not as much a force as the perception of the truth is.
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Re: Trump returning public lands in Utah

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:00 pm

I was just pointing out a fact, same as I did about diesel fuel. It doesn't matter to me what or how y'all think, the fact is I'm right.
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