You ever have one vanish??????

Cattle problems.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby ddd75 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:43 am

nm,,,,,,

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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Stocker Steve » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:48 am

True Grit Farms wrote:I don't need any more problems this year. Do you suppose something runs them through the fences and they just keep running till they drop?

I have seen some couple day old calves run out of sight but they come back later. The thing here is we don't have any cows real close to us that could adopt them.

Some calves are weak and can just curl up and die in a fence line. You have to wonder if it is a disease issue or mothering issue? I have noted a breed tendency.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Stocker Steve » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:09 am

js1234 wrote:Have cattle disappear every year.


No mountains and few cowboys here, but we do lose a few to state forests and swamp islands. With the increase in hunting land and reduction in livestock operations, they can drift a long way before they hit a fence or find a hiding spot.

Had an older neighbors who sold his milk cows and bought back some nut job grass yearlings. He was not able to contain a couple with his dairy cow fences and two of these free range steers decided relocate to some unfenced forest. The owner waited till winter and then hired a guy to run them down with a snow mobile. He dropped them, brought them back quartered, and made burger.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Nesikep » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:53 am

the only time we had one vanish was from a 2 legged predator, I think that was our first year.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby herofan » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:42 pm

Bigfoot wrote:Seems like I do every year. Sometimes 2. No sign, no nothing. You always wonder what happened. Then you gotta sell the cow. That's a big loss to. Was it a dog, a coyote, Mexican buzzards-------------frustrating.


Haven't lost one yet. I thought I had a few times, but it always turned up alive sooner or later.

Just curious, why do you have to sell the cow?

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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Bigfoot » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:53 pm

herofan wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:Seems like I do every year. Sometimes 2. No sign, no nothing. You always wonder what happened. Then you gotta sell the cow. That's a big loss to. Was it a dog, a coyote, Mexican buzzards-------------frustrating.


Haven't lost one yet. I thought I had a few times, but it always turned up alive sooner or later.

Just curious, why do you have to sell the cow?


As a general rule, I sell everything that doesn't have a calf. I would have to winter her twice, for the next calf. Be no profit left in her, that's assuming she weaned one the next time.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Caustic Burno » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:05 pm

herofan wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:Seems like I do every year. Sometimes 2. No sign, no nothing. You always wonder what happened. Then you gotta sell the cow. That's a big loss to. Was it a dog, a coyote, Mexican buzzards-------------frustrating.


Haven't lost one yet. I thought I had a few times, but it always turned up alive sooner or later.

Just curious, why do you have to sell the cow?


Cow that doesn't raise a calf has to take its place on the trailer here.
I would have 1100 dollars in the cow in two years with no return.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Stocker Steve » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:21 pm

js1234 wrote:Mid-May of 2010 when we gathered that ranch to wean the calves, for the second year, mixed in with the pairs, were 12 of the steers that had gone MIA 2 years earlier. These now 3 year old, long tailed steers were averaging not quite 1,300lbs and trailing in those cows and calves.


These National Forest steers could be a gold mine! :cowboy:
Did you consider selling them as grass fed?
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby herofan » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:24 pm

Bigfoot wrote:
herofan wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:Seems like I do every year. Sometimes 2. No sign, no nothing. You always wonder what happened. Then you gotta sell the cow. That's a big loss to. Was it a dog, a coyote, Mexican buzzards-------------frustrating.


Haven't lost one yet. I thought I had a few times, but it always turned up alive sooner or later.

Just curious, why do you have to sell the cow?


As a general rule, I sell everything that doesn't have a calf. I would have to winter her twice, for the next calf. Be no profit left in her, that's assuming she weaned one the next time.


Do you replace the cow by keeping a heifer?

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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Bigfoot » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:12 pm

herofan wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:
herofan wrote:
Haven't lost one yet. I thought I had a few times, but it always turned up alive sooner or later.

Just curious, why do you have to sell the cow?


As a general rule, I sell everything that doesn't have a calf. I would have to winter her twice, for the next calf. Be no profit left in her, that's assuming she weaned one the next time.


Do you replace the cow by keeping a heifer?


Yes. I know logic in our area dictates that the heifer will be just as long selling a calf as this cow, so might as well keep the cow. I used to do Some of that myself.

I guess my train of thought is sell her-------generate some income to feed the machine.

If I look at my farm as a factory, and the output is live animals, then I have to make decisions that leads to the maximum number of calves per year.

Hard to explain the thought process, but I'll try:
1. Say you had 100 cows

2. You likely may have a 3% death loss

3. That leaves you with 97 calves

4. Your going to keep the 15 best heifers no matter what

5. Consistently cull slow breeders, cows that wean small calves, etc and so on

6. You going to sell 82 calves every year, and every cow that gives a reason

7. By the time you sell your 82 calves, plus a few bred cows plus a few open, the gross sales are more than they would be on letting a few hang out for free. The age of herd is held a little lower that way, and the productivity continues to rise.


With all of that said, I could still agree, that the heifer cost as much to keep as cow though.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby True Grit Farms » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:57 pm

But your heifer that you keep should be better than the cow she replaces. If not your management program stinks.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby cow pollinater » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:09 pm

js1234 wrote:Have cattle disappear every year. Sometimes, we get some back years later. Odd deal, have a little piece of deeded ground about 5 miles above our headquarters ranch here in California. We bought it back in 2003 because it was close to us and a deal was there to be made. Anyhow, the first 4-5 years we owned the ranch we would buy 650-700 6 weight steers late October/early November, run them over and sell them off the grass in late May. The upper end of the country borders the National Park and is extremely rough. We always were out an unacceptable amount of cattle. The final year we ran yearlings, 672 head of cattle were turned out. We had 4 steers die. When we gathered to ship in May, the cowboys brought 626 head to the pens. We were out 42 head (over confirmed deathloss) or a little over 6%. The guys rode and rode, and I hired a helicopter one morning to clean out some pretty nasty canyons etc., that yielded 14 of our missing steers. Eventually, we wrote off the other 28 in our books as MIA and went on with life. The next year (2008 as I recall) we bought about 175 bred cows to go on that ranch and integrated it in to our Fall calving program. They calved, we branded them etc., and the switch to cows fixed our disappearing cattle issue on that ranch other than a cow here or there that fell within the acceptable deathloss. Mid-May of 2010 when we gathered that ranch to wean the calves, for the second year, mixed in with the pairs, were 12 of the steers that had gone MIA 2 years earlier. These now 3 year old, long tailed steers were averaging not quite 1,300lbs and trailing in those cows and calves. Where they had been the 24 months, including gathering the entire ranch to brand twice and ship once prior, is a mystery.

My place in CA was similar country. The previous owner was convinced someone had been stealing cattle from him. I hired a crew and gathered the place for him at the time of sale as he was elderly. We wound up with twenty head more than what he thought he had on that gather. I probably hauled another forty head off of that place over the next four years including slicks that were six or seven years old. I shot a few that fought my dogs and tried to take a horse out from under me ans had a few die loading them and one that stepped off the trailer in Visalia and died. :lol:
As for my own cattle, I was missing one set of five that lived on a spring way down in a nasty canyon that I had not seen for quite some time. I finally ran out of time and quit looking. I was long gone and settled into my new life in OK when I got a check in the mail from VLM for my cattle. I called the brand inspector and they were running clear up by the park with a couple of fencelines in between them and home.

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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby js1234 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:03 pm

cow pollinater wrote:
js1234 wrote:Have cattle disappear every year. Sometimes, we get some back years later. Odd deal, have a little piece of deeded ground about 5 miles above our headquarters ranch here in California. We bought it back in 2003 because it was close to us and a deal was there to be made. Anyhow, the first 4-5 years we owned the ranch we would buy 650-700 6 weight steers late October/early November, run them over and sell them off the grass in late May. The upper end of the country borders the National Park and is extremely rough. We always were out an unacceptable amount of cattle. The final year we ran yearlings, 672 head of cattle were turned out. We had 4 steers die. When we gathered to ship in May, the cowboys brought 626 head to the pens. We were out 42 head (over confirmed deathloss) or a little over 6%. The guys rode and rode, and I hired a helicopter one morning to clean out some pretty nasty canyons etc., that yielded 14 of our missing steers. Eventually, we wrote off the other 28 in our books as MIA and went on with life. The next year (2008 as I recall) we bought about 175 bred cows to go on that ranch and integrated it in to our Fall calving program. They calved, we branded them etc., and the switch to cows fixed our disappearing cattle issue on that ranch other than a cow here or there that fell within the acceptable deathloss. Mid-May of 2010 when we gathered that ranch to wean the calves, for the second year, mixed in with the pairs, were 12 of the steers that had gone MIA 2 years earlier. These now 3 year old, long tailed steers were averaging not quite 1,300lbs and trailing in those cows and calves. Where they had been the 24 months, including gathering the entire ranch to brand twice and ship once prior, is a mystery.

My place in CA was similar country. The previous owner was convinced someone had been stealing cattle from him. I hired a crew and gathered the place for him at the time of sale as he was elderly. We wound up with twenty head more than what he thought he had on that gather. I probably hauled another forty head off of that place over the next four years including slicks that were six or seven years old. I shot a few that fought my dogs and tried to take a horse out from under me ans had a few die loading them and one that stepped off the trailer in Visalia and died. :lol:
As for my own cattle, I was missing one set of five that lived on a spring way down in a nasty canyon that I had not seen for quite some time. I finally ran out of time and quit looking. I was long gone and settled into my new life in OK when I got a check in the mail from VLM for my cattle. I called the brand inspector and they were running clear up by the park with a couple of fencelines in between them and home.

Funny deal, I've gotten a couple surprise checks from VLM too. We send some yearlings to a grass deal up in that country in Exeter and Orosi. Seems like once a year, a check winds up in our office for a big heifer or a couple steers or something that wound up on one of the neighbors and made its way to Randy up there at the barn. Buy some feeder cattle out of there most Spring runs too. Have gone to a few of their special cow sales as well. At their July special in 2006 or 2007 we bought a whole bunch of cows. Went there a couple other times to a special and got many less than I'd planned bought. It's not really my auction of choice but I would tell anyone that those guys up at VLM can sell the wheels off bred stock.

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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby greybeard » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:27 am

Bigfoot wrote:Seems like I do every year. Sometimes 2. No sign, no nothing. You always wonder what happened. Then you gotta sell the cow. That's a big loss to. Was it a dog, a coyote, Mexican buzzards-------------frustrating.

One in early fall , 2015. I saw it nursing, maybe 2 days old and looked plenty healthy. Never saw it again and being a fairly small place, I check all mine at least every other day. No hair, no bones, no hide--no nothin. I want to think someone got it, but how they could run down one of those fleet footed chars is a puzzle.
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Re: You ever have one vanish??????

Postby Dave » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:41 am

Two years ago a healthy two month old calf disappeared without a trace. The pasture they were in is way back in a corner. Not visible or accessible from any road but there are miles of forest land behind that. I figured a cougar got him and hauled him back up into the timber.


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