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Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:29 am
by wbvs58
Nesi, here is another one that has been cropping up in Australia mainly around the edge of the tick areas where cattle have no immunity to it. Theileria.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/biosecurity/a ... /theileria

Ken

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:04 am
by Nesikep
I just gave her LA200 according to http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/330178-medication , and another good tubed watering.. she was also in a pasture with some lush grass and she ate a bit of it, then laid down.. Assuming I get the disease itself under control, I'm now concerned about getting her guts working again.. She urinated each time I worked her, but the solids don't seem to be moving

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:24 am
by Bright Raven
Nesikep wrote:I just gave her LA200 according to http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/330178-medication , and another good tubed watering.. she was also in a pasture with some lush grass and she ate a bit of it, then laid down.. Assuming I get the disease itself under control, I'm now concerned about getting her guts working again.. She urinated each time I worked her, but the solids don't seem to be moving


Nesi:

You are shooting from the hip speculating on the tick being the vector for a pathogen. And you don't know which pathogen. Some may be treatable using Chlortetracycline (LA) etc. Others may not. Certainly a broad spectrum antibiotic and you may get lucky. But keep your mind open that it may not be a pathogen caused disease.

Is there a way to move her to a facility? Via trailer, etc.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:52 am
by dun
Bright Raven wrote:
Nesikep wrote:I just gave her LA200 according to http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/330178-medication , and another good tubed watering.. she was also in a pasture with some lush grass and she ate a bit of it, then laid down.. Assuming I get the disease itself under control, I'm now concerned about getting her guts working again.. She urinated each time I worked her, but the solids don't seem to be moving


Nesi:

You are shooting from the hip speculating on the tick being the vector for a pathogen. And you don't know which pathogen. Some may be treatable using Chlortetracycline (LA) etc. Others may not. Certainly a broad spectrum antibiotic and you may get lucky. But keep your mind open that it may not be a pathogen caused disease.

What he said!

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:53 am
by Workinonit Farm
Nesi, I know it was a while back and I have a vague memory of the issue, but did you ever find out what was wrong with Maddy? Perhaps this is the same "affliction".

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:12 am
by alisonb
Nesikep wrote:Pic from this morning
Image


That cow has not been well for a long while looking at her condition. The calf should have been taken off of her. Did you take her temp? Does she carry her head forward like in the pic most times, looks like she is in pain. She looks like she does not want to step full on her hind hooves either, perhaps it is more serious than you think? I'd venture a guess and say it's Hardware disease complicated by a secondary disease now. Your high temps are not making it any easier for her either. Time to call a vet Nesi...should have called one a while ago ;-)

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:46 am
by Nesikep
I did call the vet! said to remove the tick, keep her hydrated, and wait a day.

Yes, LA200 is a bit of a shot from the hip, but her symptoms do match the ones listed in the link I gave earlier rather well, and tetracycline is listed for treatment.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:51 pm
by dun
Does she have a cough or a grunt?

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:59 pm
by Nesikep
dun wrote:Does she have a cough or a grunt?

No..

This morning I found her laying down the wrong way and a bit bloated.. rolled her around so she faced uphill, she's burping a bit, but not really unbloating. Last night I let her into a bit a lush field for a couple hours, hoping a bit of stimulation would do her good..

As for dehydration, it's pretty mild, skin returns flat within about 2 seconds of you pinching it.

If lyme disease causes the partial paralysis my vet says, that could be part of the reason she isn't belching like she ought to, a general reduction in reflexes would do it.

I have considered hardware, but pressing upward on her navel didn't seem to cause any discomfort... Yes, I noticed the lameness in the hind legs (mentioned in the first post) and until I found the tick and became aware of Lyme disease I thought it may be a separate problem.. upon reading, I'm thinking it is a symptom
Symptoms of Lyme disease in horses and cattle may include lameness, joint pain and/or stiffness, shifting from limb to limb, and weight loss.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:54 am
by boondocks
I know in humans (because just about everyone around here has had Lyme or had a family member with it) that the symptoms usually follow the tick bite by days to weeks to (for the longer-term, more lasting effects) months.
Would be interesting to hear the vets' "take" on whether a current tick bite would have caused her to go downhill so fast? They feed then (if not removed) drop off (on humans anyway), and it takes awhile for the Borrelia to multiply to where you get symptoms other than perhaps a mild flu-like syndrome.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:04 pm
by Workinonit Farm
boondocks wrote:I know in humans (because just about everyone around here has had Lyme or had a family member with it) that the symptoms usually follow the tick bite by days to weeks to (for the longer-term, more lasting effects) months.
Would be interesting to hear the vets' "take" on whether a current tick bite would have caused her to go downhill so fast? They feed then (if not removed) drop off (on humans anyway), and it takes awhile for the Borrelia to multiply to where you get symptoms other than perhaps a mild flu-like syndrome.


It is very possible for the cow to have had a Lyme infected tick on her, at some point, before Nesi found the one that he is talking about. So, it is possible that Lyme is the issue, transmitted by a completely different tick than the one he found.

The best way to know for sure, if it is Lyme, is by blood test.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:45 am
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
I do not believe it is the heat. We don't have very many 90 days around here, but lots of time, the cows will wallow around in the dirt lot instead of trying to find shade. The heat definitely will make her worse if she is running a fever.
IMO, she has something else wrong. Hardware "appears" to be a possibility, but if you can't confine her to take her temperature, I don't imagine you are going to be able to put a magnet down her. How old is her calf? Can you load her up & ship her now? Oh, I don't remember, have you treated her with any meds?

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:46 pm
by Nesikep
SHe's 6 ft under.. I went down with the .22 on friday after lunch and she was already gone.. she had been treated with LA200, and there was no way she'd have survived shipping.. 3 hours to the sale barn, and then what, another 10 to alberta, then more shipping... Even if she was accepted and survived the sale, it would probably look really bad on me.

Yeah, the heat certainly didn't help her, but wasn't the root cause... you can see in the pictures I posted the rest of the herd certainly shows no sign of stress.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:48 pm
by Nesikep
Maybe if I'd seen her get slow and immediately began treatment (the right treatment!), results would have been better.

Re: cow going down, heat stroke?

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:16 pm
by Bright Raven
Nesikep wrote:Maybe if I'd seen her get slow and immediately began treatment (the right treatment!), results would have been better.


Put it behind you. No one but You know your exact circumstances. You are not one to mistreat your cows. We all see that.