Extreme temp = sick calves

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wbvs58
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:43 am

Bright Raven wrote:
gcreekrch wrote:
wbvs58 wrote:Hey Geek, you obviously didn't even read your link there, it only reinforces what I said.

Ken


If you can't even address me by my proper handle it proves you aren't worth discussing this further.

Those that have to insult aren't worth my time. Stay away from the sheep buddy. ;-)


I may be wrong but I don't believe Ken did that deliberately. I say that because I was reading your User name that way. When I read his address to you, I didn't notice it as disrespect. After you mention it, I can distinguish the difference. In all the time I have been here, Ken has to rank as one of the top 10 gentleman. Never, not once, has he called a name.


Hear, hear Ron.

Ken
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:07 am

gcreekrch wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Quote from article: "The virus is contracted from contact with infected cattle, it is also readily sexually transmitted. Those animals infected as adults usually recover from the virus and become immune. BVDV is however readily transmitted across the placenta from cow to calf. Animals that are infected in-utero are born permanently (persistently) infected with the virus. These animals excrete large volumes of virus all of their lives and are the main route of infections in other animals. Identifying and removing these animals is the mainstay of eradication schemes for the BVDV. It needs only one persistently infected animal to be introduced into a susceptible herd to cause very significant financial losses"

So, the article you posted says the cow usually recovers & becomes immune.

Yes, MLV can be unsafe if not timed properly. But, if you read the article comparing the MLV vs killed - the list of PROS for the MLV sure outweigh the Killed.
Same reasons I use it, longer protection, better protection - and cheaper.


I will discuss this with my vet again. It is my understanding the cow is immune but passes BVD along to the calf if she is not vaccinated.


Dam auto spell check see if I get it right this time.

Gcreek, discuss it with your vet again but this is not what you were saying previously. You were saying that the cow becomes persistently infected for the rest of her life which is incorrect. If a cow with no immunity becomes infected with BVD when 3-4mths pregnant and that calf survives then that calf will be a PI if after 4 mths gestation, the calf can produce antibodies and will recover from the virus but will still be illthrifty and have defects. The cow however recovers fully and will not continue to shed the virus. For what it is worth this article covers it well.

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/asset ... ection.pdf

What my gripe with you is that you have come onto this forum sprouting how you vaccinate with massives of vaccines plus simultaneosly inject top shelf antibiotics to your purchases as though this is the gold standard and what everyone should do and yet you know very little about the diseases especially BVD. For a start your use of antibiotics as a prophylactic is very irresponsible and is the reason why authorities are clamping down on their use in food producing animals. The world wide market for meat is looking for meat produced with fewer and fewer inputs such as this.

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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby Silver » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:50 am

wbvs58 wrote: For a start your use of antibiotics as a prophylactic is very irresponsible and is the reason why authorities are clamping down on their use in food producing animals. The world wide market for meat is looking for meat produced with fewer and fewer inputs such as this.

Ken


I know you addressed this to gcreek, but I don't believe using antibiotics as a prophylactic at time of receiving cattle to mix with cattle foreign to them is a bad idea. I got burned once by not doing this once and would never attempt it again if I ever found myself in the unfortunate position of buying cows again. This is also standard procedure for feedlots everywhere. When feeders are brought in they are dosed with antibiotics and then vaccinated according to their programme. Which is why I don't vaccinate calves for anything other than cocci, but I already had that argument so no need to go there again now.
The big push regarding antibiotics is with regards to the daily feeding of it in the ration for weight gain purposes and that's a whole different proposition from protecting your investments from dying at your feet while you watch helplessly.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby gcreekrch » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:56 am

Silver wrote:
wbvs58 wrote: For a start your use of antibiotics as a prophylactic is very irresponsible and is the reason why authorities are clamping down on their use in food producing animals. The world wide market for meat is looking for meat produced with fewer and fewer inputs such as this.

Ken


I know you addressed this to gcreek, but I don't believe using antibiotics as a prophylactic at time of receiving cattle to mix with cattle foreign to them is a bad idea. I got burned once by not doing this once and would never attempt it again if I ever found myself in the unfortunate position of buying cows again. This is also standard procedure for feedlots everywhere. When feeders are brought in they are dosed with antibiotics and then vaccinated according to their programme. Which is why I don't vaccinate calves for anything other than cocci, but I already had that argument so no need to go there again now.
The big push regarding antibiotics is with regards to the daily feeding of it in the ration for weight gain purposes and that's a whole different proposition from protecting your investments from dying at your feet while you watch helplessly.


Exactly. Why would one invest in expensive cattle and not use the most protection possible. Because we bring in cattle, even our own get a Draxxin with their boosters.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:58 am

Giving everything a shot of Draxxion is a good idea and works, but terrible husbandry and bad for the cattle business. We sure don't need anymore regulations but with practices like that we'll get them. This is just playing right into corporate farms with a vet on payroll.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby gcreekrch » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Giving everything a shot of Draxxion is a good idea and works, but terrible husbandry and bad for the cattle business. We sure don't need anymore regulations but with practices like that we'll get them. This is just playing right into corporate farms with a vet on payroll.



Where do you think the idea came from if not from the mega feedlots?
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:52 pm

gcreekrch wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Giving everything a shot of Draxxion is a good idea and works, but terrible husbandry and bad for the cattle business. We sure don't need anymore regulations but with practices like that we'll get them. This is just playing right into corporate farms with a vet on payroll.



Where do you think the idea came from if not from the mega feedlots?

Ah the evil necessary in the cattle business.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:06 pm

Creek I accept you do what you do to minimise your losses because you "can" but I don't think it is good practice and I think it is abuse of the use of antibiotics and is playing into the hands of those that want to restrict their use but you do it and get away with it for now.

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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby Silver » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:01 pm

wbvs58 wrote:Creek I accept you do what you do to minimise your losses because you "can" but I don't think it is good practice and I think it is abuse of the use of antibiotics and is playing into the hands of those that want to restrict their use but you do it and get away with it for now.

Ken


I think it has been well proven that the only time antibiotics create resistance is when they do not complete the job they were intended to do. As in, if you take antibiotics for say, strep throat, but you start feeling well before your prescription is complete so you quit taking them. If you didn't completely kill the bacteria and get a relapse those bacteria will adapt and become stronger. So giving antibiotics as a prophylactic is far less harmful in the grand scheme of things than not giving enough when they actually get sick.
And back to the feedlot scenario, calves being constantly fed low doses of antibiotic in their feed to accelerate weight gain is where the legitimate problem is, not with the poor soul protecting his investment. I think the optics of a herd dying of BRD would play quite poorly in media situation, in which case the question would undoubtedly be raised: "Why weren't those poor animals treated?"
I can't imagine any responsible animal owner considering this a bad idea, quite the opposite actually.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby wbvs58 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:20 am

All I can say is you are not keeping your powder dry. I know you can do it but in essence you are making use of your top shelf drugs because they are there and the drug companies are willing sellers knowing that one day they will be ineffective but hoping that there will be a new one on the market bigger and better. As far as your justification with using it prophylacticly Silver just look at the medical world now with doctors not prescribing antibiotics for the common cold or flu unless they are certain that there is a bacterial component to try and prolong the usefull life of the antibiotics they have available as newer ones are a lot slower coming onto the market these days, they are just not keeping up.

I understand your useage of these drugs in a very difficult environment which I enjoy looking at photos of but would not like to have to work with but my suggestion is to go about what you do but don't go bragging about it, keep it under your hat, there are a lot of other people out there reading this and If I were you I would not want to draw attention to it. I did not come into this argument to criticise your use of antibiotics though it does raise my eyebrows, I came into this primarily to correct the misinformation that Gcreek was spreading about cows and Pestivirus (BVD).

I hope you and Gcreek and all CT members have a happy healthy and prosperous new year and your cattle free of disease.

Ken
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:49 am

wbvs58 wrote:All I can say is you are not keeping your powder dry. I know you can do it but in essence you are making use of your top shelf drugs because they are there and the drug companies are willing sellers knowing that one day they will be ineffective but hoping that there will be a new one on the market bigger and better. As far as your justification with using it prophylacticly Silver just look at the medical world now with doctors not prescribing antibiotics for the common cold or flu unless they are certain that there is a bacterial component to try and prolong the usefull life of the antibiotics they have available as newer ones are a lot slower coming onto the market these days, they are just not keeping up.

I understand your useage of these drugs in a very difficult environment which I enjoy looking at photos of but would not like to have to work with but my suggestion is to go about what you do but don't go bragging about it, keep it under your hat, there are a lot of other people out there reading this and If I were you I would not want to draw attention to it. I did not come into this argument to criticise your use of antibiotics though it does raise my eyebrows, I came into this primarily to correct the misinformation that Gcreek was spreading about cows and Pestivirus (BVD).

I hope you and Gcreek and all CT members have a happy healthy and prosperous new year and your cattle free of disease.

Ken


Good advice. May I add, antibiotics can have an adverse effect on the desirable flora and fauna of the gut. When I have to treat with an antibiotic, I often follow-up with probiotics.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:44 am

One thing I want to point out - IMO, human DOCTORS are the main reason for the resistance. They have/had been (and many still do) prescribing antibiotics at any sniffle or "boo-boo" for PREVENTATIVE measures.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:19 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:One thing I want to point out - IMO, human DOCTORS are the main reason for the resistance. They have/had been (and many still do) prescribing antibiotics at any sniffle or "boo-boo" for PREVENTATIVE measures.


There is a reason. Patients go to the doctor expecting antibiotics. The doctors want to please their patient and in the case that the patient gets worse, they don't want a malpractice suit hanging fire.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby True Grit Farms » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:One thing I want to point out - IMO, human DOCTORS are the main reason for the resistance. They have/had been (and many still do) prescribing antibiotics at any sniffle or "boo-boo" for PREVENTATIVE measures.


There is a reason. Patients go to the doctor expecting antibiotics. The doctors want to please their patient and in the case that the patient gets worse, they don't want a malpractice suit hanging fire.

Or maybe the doctors want a trip to Vegas, Atlanta or the Bahamas those are just a couple of the places my son has went on the pharmaceutical companies dime. There's a lot of $money in manufacturing and selling drugs.
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Re: Extreme temp = sick calves

Postby gcreekrch » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:25 am

Bright Raven wrote:
wbvs58 wrote:All I can say is you are not keeping your powder dry. I know you can do it but in essence you are making use of your top shelf drugs because they are there and the drug companies are willing sellers knowing that one day they will be ineffective but hoping that there will be a new one on the market bigger and better. As far as your justification with using it prophylacticly Silver just look at the medical world now with doctors not prescribing antibiotics for the common cold or flu unless they are certain that there is a bacterial component to try and prolong the usefull life of the antibiotics they have available as newer ones are a lot slower coming onto the market these days, they are just not keeping up.

I understand your useage of these drugs in a very difficult environment which I enjoy looking at photos of but would not like to have to work with but my suggestion is to go about what you do but don't go bragging about it, keep it under your hat, there are a lot of other people out there reading this and If I were you I would not want to draw attention to it. I did not come into this argument to criticise your use of antibiotics though it does raise my eyebrows, I came into this primarily to correct the misinformation that Gcreek was spreading about cows and Pestivirus (BVD).

I hope you and Gcreek and all CT members have a happy healthy and prosperous new year and your cattle free of disease.

Ken


Good advice. May I add, antibiotics can have an adverse effect on the desirable flora and fauna of the gut. When I have to treat with an antibiotic, I often follow-up with probiotics.



Bio Moss in the mineral. ;-)

Ken is pretty adamant about me being mistaken. I hope to open his eyes shortly. Tried to wish my vet Happy New Year this morning but just left a message. In due time.......
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