Cattle Vaccine Regimen

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Caustic Burno
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Caustic Burno » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:48 pm

Silver wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:
That was the precursor to vaccination. Did the same thing with higher risk, more unpleasantness, same reward.

It would be quite a world if we were still fighting polio and small pox.

When will it ever stop? Answer is It won't ever stop. We'll be factory farming cattle because there's no way to control disease on a free range with the way some folks think. Anyone on a very minimal cattle vaccination program is already giving the cow 20+ vaccines for one thing or the other. Is this healthy and good animal husbandry for the long run? Or is it going to be a crash and burn? Let's just kick the ball down the road, life's good....for now.


I don't see how strengthening and preparing an immune system to deal deal with the viral infections we know are out there have anything to do with kicking a can down the road. I guess we can agree to disagree on this, and you can thank your neighbours for vaccinating their herds and by extension giving yours a level of protection.



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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Silver wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:
That was the precursor to vaccination. Did the same thing with higher risk, more unpleasantness, same reward.

It would be quite a world if we were still fighting polio and small pox.

When will it ever stop? Answer is It won't ever stop. We'll be factory farming cattle because there's no way to control disease on a free range with the way some folks think. Anyone on a very minimal cattle vaccination program is already giving the cow 20+ vaccines for one thing or the other. Is this healthy and good animal husbandry for the long run? Or is it going to be a crash and burn? Let's just kick the ball down the road, life's good....for now.


I don't see how strengthening and preparing an immune system to deal deal with the viral infections we know are out there have anything to do with kicking a can down the road. I guess we can agree to disagree on this, and you can thank your neighbours for vaccinating their herds and by extension giving yours a level of protection.

My neighbors don't vaccinate, don't worm and as a matter of fact they don't do anything for their cows. Two of my neighbors share one bull he breeds between 70 - 90 head a year. I do not condone their management practices but I do own a backhoe and I've only buried 3 cows for them in 12 years. They manage the same way as their grandfather managed.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:47 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:When will it ever stop? Answer is It won't ever stop. We'll be factory farming cattle because there's no way to control disease on a free range with the way some folks think. Anyone on a very minimal cattle vaccination program is already giving the cow 20+ vaccines for one thing or the other. Is this healthy and good animal husbandry for the long run? Or is it going to be a crash and burn? Let's just kick the ball down the road, life's good....for now.


I don't see how strengthening and preparing an immune system to deal deal with the viral infections we know are out there have anything to do with kicking a can down the road. I guess we can agree to disagree on this, and you can thank your neighbours for vaccinating their herds and by extension giving yours a level of protection.

My neighbors don't vaccinate, don't worm and as a matter of fact they don't do anything for their cows. Two of my neighbors share one bull he breeds between 70 - 90 head a year. I do not condone their management practices but I do own a backhoe and I've only buried 3 cows for them in 12 years. They manage the same way as their grandfather managed.


Sounds to me like they are among the few making money.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Silver » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:01 pm

I'm the last person to get all preachy about vaccine programmes, but I wouldn't be without some protection on the stock I keep. I've seen blackleg get awful close to home, and I've made the mistake of not getting somnus into my keeper heifers one year. That was an expensive and needless experience.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:
I don't see how strengthening and preparing an immune system to deal deal with the viral infections we know are out there have anything to do with kicking a can down the road. I guess we can agree to disagree on this, and you can thank your neighbours for vaccinating their herds and by extension giving yours a level of protection.

My neighbors don't vaccinate, don't worm and as a matter of fact they don't do anything for their cows. Two of my neighbors share one bull he breeds between 70 - 90 head a year. I do not condone their management practices but I do own a backhoe and I've only buried 3 cows for them in 12 years. They manage the same way as their grandfather managed.


Sounds to me like they are among the few making money.

They definitely net more per head than I do.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:52 pm

Silver wrote:I'm the last person to get all preachy about vaccine programmes, but I wouldn't be without some protection on the stock I keep. I've seen blackleg get awful close to home, and I've made the mistake of not getting somnus into my keeper heifers one year. That was an expensive and needless experience.

I vaccinate every cow on the place, do I think they all need to be vaccinated no way. We sell bulls, and heifers at sales through out Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina. We also retained ownership on 6 steers through a UGA program this year just to see where we stand. I'm not a big fan of MLV, but we use it when the use of a MLV is a requirement. We vaccinate for our protection and reputation, our buyers protection and for our animals protection. I know the so called right way to do things in the cattle business. But I believe in questioning and asking why to things that don't add up. We have a long way to go in the southeast as far as having our calves ready for the feedlots. But I've heard from a few different feedlots that the cattle from the southeast once they get straightened around, out gain cattle from anywhere else in the country. That tells me education is the key to success, but some folks can't or don't care to see the light.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:50 am

So you just like to bi[ch about it????
It is like there are two different people posting as True Grit Farm. Very contradictory.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:27 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:So you just like to bi[ch about it????
It is like there are two different people posting as True Grit Farm. Very contradictory.


You got It!

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But he does have a good heart and we all pray for him.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:23 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:So you just like to bi[ch about it????
It is like there are two different people posting as True Grit Farm. Very contradictory.

I like to hear both sides of the debate. Seems like everyone is just following the leader. And the leader is the drug and pharmaceutical companies. I ask questions and because you should, it might prevent, and maybe doesn't cut it for me. I'm sure glad our local UGA vet, Dr Lee Jones, DMV, MS who set up our vaccination program doesn't work for any pharmaceutical companies. He also happens to be a UGA, Veterinary Diagnostic Investigator, and is up to date on what's happening in the beef production medicine side of our industry. Dr Jones, has what he calls a pet peave that hasn't even been mentioned, and it's the most important part in animal health. One needle one animal, never use the same needle in different animals.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regimen

Postby Ebenezer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:16 am

Dr Jones, has what he calls a pet peave that hasn't even been mentioned, and it's the most important part in animal health. One needle one animal, never use the same needle in different animals.

This is a big deal especially on IM shots. BLV for one reason. Same thing for AI sleeves or during palpation. Side note at no extra cost ;-) : ironically it is not a big deal in sheep even though we often talk about their weaknesses more.

My neighbors don't vaccinate, don't worm and as a matter of fact they don't do anything for their cows. Two of my neighbors share one bull he breeds between 70 - 90 head a year. I do not condone their management practices but I do own a backhoe and I've only buried 3 cows for them in 12 years. They manage the same way as their grandfather managed.

And when their calves get to the next buyer and collapse due to disease, lack of minerals in the system and/or stored in the liver then who pays the expense? Every seller of calve in the source area because the buyers perceive that every calf from those barns are high risk and worth less. That is the Cliff Note version of the history of sale barn calves in the SE USA.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:17 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:So you just like to bi[ch about it????
It is like there are two different people posting as True Grit Farm. Very contradictory.

I like to hear both sides of the debate. Seems like everyone is just following the leader. And the leader is the drug and pharmaceutical companies. I ask questions and because you should, it might prevent, and maybe doesn't cut it for me. I'm sure glad our local UGA vet, Dr Lee Jones, DMV, MS who set up our vaccination program doesn't work for any pharmaceutical companies. He also happens to be a UGA, Veterinary Diagnostic Investigator, and is up to date on what's happening in the beef production medicine side of our industry. Dr Jones, has what he calls a pet peave that hasn't even been mentioned, and it's the most important part in animal health. One needle one animal, never use the same needle in different animals.

Well, duh! That's not rocket science. that has been advised since back in my "younger years". LOL Doesn't mean we follow that rule.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:34 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:So you just like to bi[ch about it????
It is like there are two different people posting as True Grit Farm. Very contradictory.

I like to hear both sides of the debate. Seems like everyone is just following the leader. And the leader is the drug and pharmaceutical companies. I ask questions and because you should, it might prevent, and maybe doesn't cut it for me. I'm sure glad our local UGA vet, Dr Lee Jones, DMV, MS who set up our vaccination program doesn't work for any pharmaceutical companies. He also happens to be a UGA, Veterinary Diagnostic Investigator, and is up to date on what's happening in the beef production medicine side of our industry. Dr Jones, has what he calls a pet peave that hasn't even been mentioned, and it's the most important part in animal health. One needle one animal, never use the same needle in different animals.

Well, duh! That's not rocket science. that has been advised since back in my "younger years". LOL Doesn't mean we follow that rule.

It's a shame that everyone isn't as knowledgeable as you on Cattle Today Jeanne. Contrary to what you might think there's different ways and reasons to doing some things. Changing needles is cost and time prohibitive in a large herd. In Florida when we work cows on the ranch there's no time to change the needle between animals. I mention this for those that are following along, same reason I mention that a MLV might not be the best choice for some.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 am

True Grit Farms wrote: Changing needles is cost and time prohibitive in a large herd. In Florida when we work cows on the ranch there's no time to change the needle between animals.


It takes literally 5 seconds to change a needle. But it makes a good excuse!
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regimen

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:49 am

"Doesn't mean we follow that rule." I was acknowledging that "we" (meaning me also) don't always follow that rule - it is costly. I did acknowledge that it has been advised for decades to change needles .
To the best of my knowledge, it is only a problem for blood born diseases.
I think someone above also mentioned AI gloves are also a no-no on reusing. Because of the blood. Also, dehorners should be sterilized in between cattle, because of the blood. You NEVER want to cross contaminate blood.
I think we are "somewhat" on the same page, you just seem to have an argumentative method of getting it across.

I have a different question you brought up. Vaccinating kids for school. If the school's hold firm on kids getting vaccinated, how are these parents getting away with not vaccinating. For the first time in many, many years, un-vaccinated children are having out-breaks of childhood diseases that have been "eradicated" and are a health threat to our elders (like me LOL). I realize some of this must be from "home schooled" kids.
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Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:31 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote: Changing needles is cost and time prohibitive in a large herd. In Florida when we work cows on the ranch there's no time to change the needle between animals.


It takes literally 5 seconds to change a needle. But it makes a good excuse!

I'd like to see 5 seconds? And doubt you can't do it the right way in less than a minute. We'll be using a syringe full of micotil just to make it interesting. Have you ever worked 200 head in a day? You don't have time to pee.
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