Page 2 of 5

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:34 am
by Caustic Burno
Ebenezer wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:We're doing the same to our animals as we've done in mankind. At one time only the healthiest - strongest got to reproduce and pass their superior genes along. Now we have created a society that can't live without vaccines and medical attention.

The wild and primitive animals roamed. We confine to fenced areas or lots and in intensive or mob grazing we do worse. We mix and mingle livestock from the four corners and "Ask" livestock to grow faster, bigger, more muscled, give more milk, ...

If a healthy cow eats grass where a coyote with lepto urinated then there is the issue of needing to eat what is available and aborting rather than roaming over to another county and eating something else. It's not all black and white. I do agree that environmental fit and allowing a level of parasite resistance in the cow calf sector is a long term need for the industry to successfully compete with chicken and pork. It's all about margins and cost of production.


Feral hogs are becoming a huge problem transmitting lepto and bangs.

This is from our State Vet.
“Yes, it is my understanding that cattle can get swine brucellosis even if they have been vaccinated since we are talking about separate organisms in cattle and swine. Also the cattle can test positive.

I have our Extension Veterinarian Dr. Tom Hairgrove, he can correct me if I am wrong or answer any additional questions.”

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 am
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:We're doing the same to our animals as we've done in mankind. At one time only the healthiest - strongest got to reproduce and pass their superior genes along. Now we have created a society that can't live without vaccines and medical attention.


There are books written on the concept that science and technology will alter the natural selection and evolution of the human species. There are many conditions that the natural world selects against such as diabetes, etc. Over time, our species will express those conditions at higher frequencies. Not much to stop it unless you can accept letting your offspring die of treatable conditions before they can reproduce.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:38 am
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
LEPTO - all forms are spread by our wildlife - deer, coyotes, hogs, etc. You are not treating a disease, you are PREVENTING a disease. HB is "relatively" new strain of Lepto.
Do you believe in vaccinating your children?

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:52 am
by Bright Raven
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:LEPTO - all forms are spread by our wildlife - deer, coyotes, hogs, etc. You are not treating a disease, you are PREVENTING a disease. HB is "relatively" new strain of Lepto.
Do you believe in vaccinating your children?


Same way even more so with the Clostridial group of bacteria. They are ubiquitous in every environment on earth except maybe the polar ice caps. BTW: I think you directed that question at True Grit. Form my perspective, I believe in vaccinating humans. Seems to be a contemporary fad against it. Oddly, my parents generation were saved from the ravages of the likes of small pox and polio because of vaccines.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:02 pm
by Katpau
I also use Vira Shield and Covexin 8, except that I use the Vira Shield 6 +VL5 HB. I give the Vira Shield twice per year because my Vet tells me it is only good for about 6 months. We do have a problem with late term abortion (250 days+ gestation) and the occasional weak calf in spite of culling the opens. Tests have eliminated many causes but could not rule out Lepto. Since you are already vaccinating with a the Novartis product Vira Shield, I suggest you just change to the one that includes HB. When we first began using it, my Vet said it was the only product that had the HB strain. That may have changed now.

Image

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:16 pm
by Bright Raven
Katpau wrote:I also use Vira Shield and Covexin 8, except that I use the Vira Shield 6 +VL5 HB. I give the Vira Shield twice per year because my Vet tells me it is only good for about 6 months. We do have a problem with late term abortion (250 days+ gestation) and the occasional weak calf in spite of culling the opens. Tests have eliminated many causes but could not rule out Lepto. Since you are already vaccinating with a the Novartis product Vira Shield, I suggest you just change to the one that includes HB. When we first began using it, my Vet said it was the only product that had the HB strain. That may have changed now.

Image


Most drug companies, in fact, maybe all of them, offer a Hardjo Bovis vaccine.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:08 pm
by True Grit Farms
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:LEPTO - all forms are spread by our wildlife - deer, coyotes, hogs, etc. You are not treating a disease, you are PREVENTING a disease. HB is "relatively" new strain of Lepto.
Do you believe in vaccinating your children?

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids, we did because of school policy. Do you get the flu shot? Most vaccinations are needed because of someone else's negligence. Common sense tells me, If your PREVENTING a disease why do we keep having new one's? Think the flu shot, it's a vicious circle or cycle. You can eliminate HB, the same way as the USDA eliminated BSE. The only problem with doing that is there's no money in dead cows for the drug companies.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm
by Ebenezer
why do we keep having new one's? Think the flu shot, it's a vicious circle or cycle.
Like the common cold - answer is mutations.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:22 pm
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:LEPTO - all forms are spread by our wildlife - deer, coyotes, hogs, etc. You are not treating a disease, you are PREVENTING a disease. HB is "relatively" new strain of Lepto.
Do you believe in vaccinating your children?

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids, we did because of school policy. Do you get the flu shot? Most vaccinations are needed because of someone else's negligence. Common sense tells me, If your PREVENTING a disease why do we keep having new one's? Think the flu shot, it's a vicious circle or cycle. You can eliminate HB, the same way as the USDA eliminated BSE. The only problem with doing that is there's no money in dead cows for the drug companies.

Are you serious?? Vaccinations have NOTHING to do with neglect. Vaccinations are protection to exposure. If you live with no cattle, or wild animals for a distance away and no one ever walks on your land that has exposure to cattle or wild animals, well then, you are good to go. No exposure. Aren't you lucky.
I won't even go into children getting vaccinated.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:27 pm
by Bright Raven
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:LEPTO - all forms are spread by our wildlife - deer, coyotes, hogs, etc. You are not treating a disease, you are PREVENTING a disease. HB is "relatively" new strain of Lepto.
Do you believe in vaccinating your children?

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids, we did because of school policy. Do you get the flu shot? Most vaccinations are needed because of someone else's negligence. Common sense tells me, If your PREVENTING a disease why do we keep having new one's? Think the flu shot, it's a vicious circle or cycle. You can eliminate HB, the same way as the USDA eliminated BSE. The only problem with doing that is there's no money in dead cows for the drug companies.

Are you serious?? Vaccinations have NOTHING to do with neglect. Vaccinations are protection to exposure. If you live with no cattle, or wild animals for a distance away and no one ever walks on your land that has exposure to cattle or wild animals, well then, you are good to go. No exposure. Aren't you lucky.
I won't even go into children getting vaccinated.


Jeanne. Look at it this way. Grit's logic is a compelling inspiration for our youth to get an education. :lol: :lol: :cboy:

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:50 pm
by True Grit Farms
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:LEPTO - all forms are spread by our wildlife - deer, coyotes, hogs, etc. You are not treating a disease, you are PREVENTING a disease. HB is "relatively" new strain of Lepto.
Do you believe in vaccinating your children?

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids, we did because of school policy. Do you get the flu shot? Most vaccinations are needed because of someone else's negligence. Common sense tells me, If your PREVENTING a disease why do we keep having new one's? Think the flu shot, it's a vicious circle or cycle. You can eliminate HB, the same way as the USDA eliminated BSE. The only problem with doing that is there's no money in dead cows for the drug companies.

Are you serious?? Vaccinations have NOTHING to do with neglect. Vaccinations are protection to exposure. If you live with no cattle, or wild animals for a distance away and no one ever walks on your land that has exposure to cattle or wild animals, well then, you are good to go. No exposure. Aren't you lucky.
I won't even go into children getting vaccinated.

Of course I'm serious, if everyone would cull every cow that doesn't produce a live calf in a 12 month period we wouldn't have HB in our cattle. There's no possible way a cow can abort a calf because it's HB positive and have another calf within a 12 month period.
So getting your kids vaccinations prevents them from getting sick? My kids are going to get sick if their vaccinated or not, I can remember my mom exposing us to kids that had the chicken pox, mumps and measles. That way later on in life they wouldn't be a problem, see to have worked great. Jeanne, I'm surprised with all you've been through that you have any faith in the medical - pharmaceutical industry to keep us healthy.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well, I sure do. My husband had stage 4 lung cancer and they cured him. He died of two blood clots in his lungs, due to the fact that he would not "stay down" and rest and refused to take Cumadin (sp? - blood thinner). He got the blood clots on a 4 hour drive to a show. They did an awesome job with his cancer. I have absolutely no complaints with the medical field. A little more research and more people will get to be cured in the future.
Your statement makes absolutely no sense. The "disease" is not in the cattle until they get exposed to it - via wild animals mostly - or even your own dog. Soooo - do you plan on wiping out all the wild animals in the world? Let's get real.
No vaccine STOPS an animal from getting sick. It gives them the immunities to fight it off. You do not understand vaccines. I will continue to support the pharmaceutical companies, thank you very much.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:25 pm
by Silver
True Grit Farms wrote:I can remember my mom exposing us to kids that had the chicken pox, mumps and measles. That way later on in life they wouldn't be a problem, see to have worked great.


That was the precursor to vaccination. Did the same thing with higher risk, more unpleasantness, same reward.

It would be quite a world if we were still fighting polio and small pox.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:32 pm
by True Grit Farms
Silver wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:I can remember my mom exposing us to kids that had the chicken pox, mumps and measles. That way later on in life they wouldn't be a problem, see to have worked great.


That was the precursor to vaccination. Did the same thing with higher risk, more unpleasantness, same reward.

It would be quite a world if we were still fighting polio and small pox.

When will it ever stop? Answer is It won't ever stop. We'll be factory farming cattle because there's no way to control disease on a free range with the way some folks think. Anyone on a very minimal cattle vaccination program is already giving the cow 20+ vaccines for one thing or the other. Is this healthy and good animal husbandry for the long run? Or is it going to be a crash and burn? Let's just kick the ball down the road, life's good....for now.

Re: Cattle Vaccine Regiment

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:41 pm
by Silver
True Grit Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:I can remember my mom exposing us to kids that had the chicken pox, mumps and measles. That way later on in life they wouldn't be a problem, see to have worked great.


That was the precursor to vaccination. Did the same thing with higher risk, more unpleasantness, same reward.

It would be quite a world if we were still fighting polio and small pox.

When will it ever stop? Answer is It won't ever stop. We'll be factory farming cattle because there's no way to control disease on a free range with the way some folks think. Anyone on a very minimal cattle vaccination program is already giving the cow 20+ vaccines for one thing or the other. Is this healthy and good animal husbandry for the long run? Or is it going to be a crash and burn? Let's just kick the ball down the road, life's good....for now.


I don't see how strengthening and preparing an immune system to deal deal with the viral infections we know are out there have anything to do with kicking a can down the road. I guess we can agree to disagree on this, and you can thank your neighbours for vaccinating their herds and by extension giving yours a level of protection.