Pushing calves

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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:45 pm

Dr. Eric Vanzant, University of Kentucky, Ruminant Nutrition specialist has been researching the the development and differentiation of the bovine stomach.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:43 pm

Every registered calf born has free choice feed available from the time it hits the ground. We can't make weight for the bull evaluation sales, or get the heifers big enough to breed before their a year old if we don't creep feed. And the steer calves that have been creep fed do a lot better on the UGA beef retained ownership program. Usually within 4 weeks most calves are smelling and nudging the feed, and by 6 weeks the calves are eating the feed. If you market your calves through the sale barn creep feeding probably isn't the way to go.
http://godfreysfeed.com These's folks sell some pretty good feed.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:14 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Every registered calf born has free choice feed available from the time it hits the ground. We can't make weight for the bull evaluation sales, or get the heifers big enough to breed before their a year old if we don't creep feed. And the steer calves that have been creep fed do a lot better on the UGA beef retained ownership program. Usually within 4 weeks most calves are smelling and nudging the feed, and by 6 weeks the calves are eating the feed. If you market your calves through the sale barn creep feeding probably isn't the way to go.
http://godfreysfeed.com These's folks sell some pretty good feed.


You breed your heifers at 12 months? Intentionally?
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:14 pm

Jeanne when you say "heat" are you referring to actual body temp to help them in such a cold climate or are you using the term "heat" as we say with horses it will heat them up meaning hard to handle and manage also vulnerability to laminitis etc or a bit of both??

Ron, Ben Nevis Angus south of me on the New England have marketed their bulls as yearlings for several years now and have done so very successsfully with good acceptance from buyers. I think they did it out of necessity as they developed into a fair size operation on limited land. It is run by Stu and Erica Haliday and Stu is also a vet, he looks after the nutrition and they feed heavily to prepare the bulls. The link below is an article they put in their catalogue dispelling myths on feeding especially young bulls. Unfortunately he does not enclose a bibliography of references however I believe it is based on well researched science. So if you are interested, here it is.

https://bennevisangus.com.au/2014/08/18/634/

In my limited experience in feeding bulls for sales and getting them up to 2 yr old weights of 900-1000kg feedback from customers I have not had any melting or poor performance from the bulls. I have used some myself and they have just turned up and worked and over a period of time they have matched the condition of the cows. Sperm motility is always high and I get a +ve comment from the vet every time.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:32 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Every registered calf born has free choice feed available from the time it hits the ground. We can't make weight for the bull evaluation sales, or get the heifers big enough to breed before their a year old if we don't creep feed. And the steer calves that have been creep fed do a lot better on the UGA beef retained ownership program. Usually within 4 weeks most calves are smelling and nudging the feed, and by 6 weeks the calves are eating the feed. If you market your calves through the sale barn creep feeding probably isn't the way to go.
http://godfreysfeed.com These's folks sell some pretty good feed.


You breed your heifers at 12 months? Intentionally?

Yes you breed on size not weight, everyone has they're own way of thinking. Every heifer that weighs around 800 lbs gets a embryo put in. John usually gives heifers 4 tries, twice with embryos and twice using AI. If they don't stick they go for a ride and are never exposed to a bull and are sold as open heifers. John swears that a heifer is more fertile than a cow. I go by what I see, and until I see different I'm sticking with his ideas.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:41 pm

Ken - yes, I was referring to body heat. But, getting young stock to grow too quickly can hurt their legs. I just don't like to push them real hard. My "competitors" push hard, making it tough to compete at a very young age, but mine hold their own & generally excel as yearlings, especially in structure.
I breed by age because I have a specific "calving season" therefore a specific breeding season.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Nesikep » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:30 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Every registered calf born has free choice feed available from the time it hits the ground. We can't make weight for the bull evaluation sales, or get the heifers big enough to breed before their a year old if we don't creep feed. And the steer calves that have been creep fed do a lot better on the UGA beef retained ownership program. Usually within 4 weeks most calves are smelling and nudging the feed, and by 6 weeks the calves are eating the feed. If you market your calves through the sale barn creep feeding probably isn't the way to go.
http://godfreysfeed.com These's folks sell some pretty good feed.

I had one calf born a little late last year, she was chewing cud at 9 days old.. just watched and copied momma I guess, and there was nice fresh grass for her too
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby True Grit Farms » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:04 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Ken - yes, I was referring to body heat. But, getting young stock to grow too quickly can hurt their legs. I just don't like to push them real hard. My "competitors" push hard, making it tough to compete at a very young age, but mine hold their own & generally excel as yearlings, especially in structure.
I breed by age because I have a specific "calving season" therefore a specific breeding season.

We're blessed to live in the south and have year round markets. UGA puts on two bull and heifer sales a year. One in the spring one in the fall, it's impossible to breed for spring and fall sales with a single breeding season. All the big high end operations that I know of in the southeast have a spring a fall sale. This is one I'll be attending in a week.


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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:26 am

Grit - I should have clarified - I have TWO breeding seasons - spring & fall. But, both are a specific starting & stopping dates. So, if born in spring (Jan 1 - Mar 5), I breed all the heifers to calve 1-1 to 1-6. If settled, they will range from 24 months of age to 22. Nothing gets bred for 12 days (vacation!!!!). Then "repeat" heifers & cows start being bred. Just started that "timing" last year and it worked great for us. But, it meant the cows were exposed to AI for only 50 days.
Fall is Sept & Oct.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:43 am

wbvs58 wrote:Ron, Ben Nevis Angus south of me on the New England have marketed their bulls as yearlings for several years now and have done so very successsfully with good acceptance from buyers. I think they did it out of necessity as they developed into a fair size operation on limited land. It is run by Stu and Erica Haliday and Stu is also a vet, he looks after the nutrition and they feed heavily to prepare the bulls. The link below is an article they put in their catalogue dispelling myths on feeding especially young bulls. Unfortunately he does not enclose a bibliography of references however I believe it is based on well researched science. So if you are interested, here it is.

https://bennevisangus.com.au/2014/08/18/634/

In my limited experience in feeding bulls for sales and getting them up to 2 yr old weights of 900-1000kg feedback from customers I have not had any melting or poor performance from the bulls. I have used some myself and they have just turned up and worked and over a period of time they have matched the condition of the cows. Sperm motility is always high and I get a +ve comment from the vet every time.


Ken. Thank you. That was a good read.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:52 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Every heifer that weighs around 800 lbs gets a embryo put in. John usually gives heifers 4 tries, twice with embryos and twice using AI. If they don't stick they go for a ride and are never exposed to a bull and are sold as open heifers. John swears that a heifer is more fertile than a cow. I go by what I see, and until I see different I'm sticking with his ideas.


Vince:

I provided my AI results in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=112881

I have a heifer that I took a third AI to stick. She has finally passed her first 21 day cycle. You commented that she should be culled.

Is this another one of those "Do as I say, not as I do?"

Following is your comment:

I would cull what doesn't work for me. Personally I'd sell before the heifers go to a bull. That way you can still sell them as open heifers, and sleep at night.

BTW: Vince, I assume you have very few that require 4 attempts to get them bred!
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby dun » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:00 am

Well I guess there always has to be at least one naysayer. If the calves are being marketed as feeders I would think yo would get killed for them being over conditioned. As breeders I want mine to grow moderately. Heifers Growing well but not nay real fat, just well covered. Bulls the same although they will get a little grain after weaning till turn out with the cows.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:16 am

dun wrote:Well I guess there always has to be at least one naysayer. If the calves are being marketed as feeders I would think yo would get killed for them being over conditioned. As breeders I want mine to grow moderately. Heifers Growing well but not nay real fat, just well covered. Bulls the same although they will get a little grain after weaning till turn out with the cows.


I am glad you are home and on CT. Take care of yourself!

dun, I don't think I am pushing them too hard. They still are not accumulating fat. The article provided by Ken is consistent with what Dr. Eric Vanzant, University of Kentucky, Ruminant Nutrition specialist, stated at our annual meeting.
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby dun » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:54 am

Thanks. From the pictures, which can always fool you, they appear over conditioned to me
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Re: Pushing calves

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:00 am

Hey Dun, hope you're feeling better.
I have examined them pretty close and I see a lot of muscle & hair, Really don't see any fat, so I will agree that they are doing well. I have already given my "warnings" - LOL
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