7 day old calves....

Cattle problems.
User avatar
farmerjan
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:54 pm
Location: Shenandoah ValleyVirginia

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby farmerjan » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:00 pm

I definitely think it is the salt. The calves are getting more than they need and regardless of the cows having plenty of water, so not gorging on the water, the calves do not need the salt and are probably getting a near toxic dose. Their manure and pee might look normal, but they are probably peeing alot more than you know and so are possibly mildly dehydrated too. I have read about using salt as a limiter, but never for cows close to freshening or with smaller sized calves. Stop the salt as a limiter and see if it doesn't clear up. The cows have too much salt in their diet, it is going through the milk and anything the calves are getting has a high salt concentrate. Ought to try to get some milk out of a cow or two and see if it can be tested for salt concentration.
I suspect the mineral analysis will show a high salt concentrate but maybe not.
This is my gut reaction, no guarantee. To me using it as a limiter is not the way I would go. If they are eating the DDG, it is almost like force feeding them salt. Sure, they stop, but they are getting more than they really need in my humble, uneducated opinion. They are gobbling the DDG for a bit, and you know they are getting a fair amount of salt.
3 x

User avatar
Fire Sweep Ranch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2369
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 am
Location: SW MO
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:09 pm

I appreciate your input, however I can assure you these 7 day old calves ARE NOT into the feed! They are only drinking milk, and have been up in the pens now for a few days and still have symptoms. Also, they are too small to even reach into the feeders where we put the mix.
We have been on the DDG mix for about 30 days, of the 5 calves affected, only these two are during the time we are feeding the salt/ddg mix. So I doubt it is the salt. Our vet checked them for dehydration, and there was none that he could detect (tent over the eyelid).
We fed the same thing last year, and did not have any of these symptoms.... so why this year and not last?
0 x
God, family, and Simmental cattle; that's what makes life worth living!

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5413
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:24 pm

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:I appreciate your input, however I can assure you these 7 day old calves ARE NOT into the feed! They are only drinking milk, and have been up in the pens now for a few days and still have symptoms. Also, they are too small to even reach into the feeders where we put the mix.
We have been on the DDG mix for about 30 days, of the 5 calves affected, only these two are during the time we are feeding the salt/ddg mix. So I doubt it is the salt. Our vet checked them for dehydration, and there was none that he could detect (tent over the eyelid).
We fed the same thing last year, and did not have any of these symptoms.... so why this year and not last?

The vet asked if we had quit feeding the cow that had the staggers right off the get go. And in two days off the feed she was back to walking normal. She was still moving a little slow for a few more days but not staggering. Anytime there's a problem you always stop the feed and give hay and clean water only.
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
farmerjan
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:54 pm
Location: Shenandoah ValleyVirginia

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby farmerjan » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:39 pm

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:I appreciate your input, however I can assure you these 7 day old calves ARE NOT into the feed! They are only drinking milk, and have been up in the pens now for a few days and still have symptoms. Also, they are too small to even reach into the feeders where we put the mix.
We have been on the DDG mix for about 30 days, of the 5 calves affected, only these two are during the time we are feeding the salt/ddg mix. So I doubt it is the salt. Our vet checked them for dehydration, and there was none that he could detect (tent over the eyelid).
We fed the same thing last year, and did not have any of these symptoms.... so why this year and not last?


I didn't think the calves were into the feed, but that they are getting too much salt through the cows milk. And like I said, just my personal thoughts, definitely not an expert. But I have had some issues with salt toxicity in the past and we never put it in our feed anymore as any kind of a limiter.
Why this year and not last? Is there any possibility that the salt is tainted with something else that could be toxic ? Or the DDG being from a different "formula" at the place it comes from?
Maybe lacking some miniscule amount of a necessary mineral because the DDG is different from last year? I hope the lab results will give you something to work with. Or something in your mineral mix that is out of whack?
Just trying to throw somethings out there maybe you didn't think of yet.
1 x

User avatar
Jeanne - Simme Valley
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8252
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:46 am
Location: Central Upstate New York
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:48 am

Chris - how are they doing now?
Do you give Multimin or BoSe at birth? I am unsure how quickly the Selenium shot will be effective if this is White Muscle Disease (Se deficiency). I was just thinking if you don't give it at birth, and this was the first shot, maybe it takes a few days for it to help. Generally, with WMD, they are "healthy" but have weak large muscles. Used to hear about lambs or calves running & bucking and keeling over. Just a thought.
I know it can be soooo frustrating "not knowing". Hope today is turn-around day for them.
0 x
Simme Valley of New York - http://www.SimmeValley.com
"We make a living by what we get,
we make a life by what we give."

Lucky_P
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2831
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 10:17 pm
Location: Western KY
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Lucky_P » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:54 am

Highly unlikely that salt is the culprit in 7-day old calves on the dam.

Any vetch in pasture or hay?
www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cahfs/local_reso ... t_2016.pdf
0 x

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4415
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:18 am

Lucky_P wrote:Highly unlikely that salt is the culprit in 7-day old calves on the dam.

Any vetch in pasture or hay?
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cahfs/loc ... t_2016.pdf


Lucky,

I have been all over the Fire Sweep farm even there during hay harvest and moved the rolls out of the field for them. I have seen very little vetch. I have more here.

However, they do purchase most of their hay.
0 x

User avatar
Fire Sweep Ranch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2369
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 am
Location: SW MO
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:08 am

Lucky, I have seen no evidence of vetch in my hay. I purchased all of my hay this year, and went to the fields they came out of, and did not see any. The group gets a bale of grass hay and a bale of alfalfa/crab grass every other day. They finish the grass hay first, then eat the alfalfa (I do not drop more hay until it is all cleaned up).
Jeanne - we do not routinely give multi-min. So these two got it after showing symptoms. I asked the vet while he was here if I should give them BoSe, and he said no because I gave the Multi-min already. That is where my thought process is; maybe a few calves are week at 6 days because they are lacking a mineral.... hopefully the blood test will tell us something (however, blood was drawn 48 hours after giving the multi-min so I am not sure how that will affect the test results).
Calf number two, the younger and smaller calf, is doing much better! He was up and running this morning when I went to the barn, the cow's udder is nursed down, and he came up to munch on the hay I put down for the cow. I think we are on the clear side with him. I really think the multi-min helps these calves, it seems that it takes about 3 days to see improvement after giving it (I gave multi-min on Wed, SQ).
Calf two is still wobbly, but he is also dealing with a little bit of milk scours. He has always been a very slow, mellow calf. He was 96 pounds at birth, and reminds me of a surfer dude type personality. But, the cow's udder is soft and when forced he gets up and walks around. His recip dam is a 9 year old cow that has a ton of milk and raises a big one every year.
They are both still in the barn because we received a bunch of freezing rain over the last 24 hours, and I did not want to compound the issues. I will let them out tomorrow, when it should warm up a little and do some thawing....
1 x
God, family, and Simmental cattle; that's what makes life worth living!

User avatar
Jeanne - Simme Valley
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8252
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:46 am
Location: Central Upstate New York
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:15 am

Chris - If it were me - I would give every calf a multimin shot at birth. I used to use BoSe at birth, but have switched to Multimin at birth. I also give a Vit. A&D shot at birth. Something Cornell Univ always has recommended. I go out of my way to purchase one that can be given SQ.
It sure sounds/looks like it "could" be WMD. Lucky would have more input.
But, SE at birth does not hurt anything, I highly recommend it.
0 x
Simme Valley of New York - http://www.SimmeValley.com
"We make a living by what we get,
we make a life by what we give."

User avatar
Fire Sweep Ranch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2369
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 am
Location: SW MO
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:15 pm

Well, both calves came back clear for BVD, which I expected. Still waiting on the mineral blood work.... both calves are now completely normal, as usual.
0 x
God, family, and Simmental cattle; that's what makes life worth living!

User avatar
Jeanne - Simme Valley
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8252
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:46 am
Location: Central Upstate New York
Contact:

Re: 7 day old calves....

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:34 pm

Good to hear they are good now.
But, like you said, the mineral blood work probably won't give you a true picture because you had already given the Multimin.
It makes sense to me that it would take a few days for the SE to be effective if they had WMD.
0 x
Simme Valley of New York - http://www.SimmeValley.com
"We make a living by what we get,
we make a life by what we give."


Return to “Health & Nutrition”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests