Wait and see?

Cattle problems.
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Bright Raven
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:12 am

TCRanch wrote:
Turkeybird wrote:Perilla mint weed grow there?

I've never seen it in our pastures or heard of it around here. Doesn't mean it's not there - never say never.


You would see a lot more signs of respiratory distress if she had mint perella toxicosis. I underlined the necropsy results, as you can see, the clinical effect is dramatic. Here is an abstract on mint perella toxicosis:

Perilla frutescens or purple mint has been associated with atypical interstitial pneumonia (AIP) for a quarter of a century. The amount and the stage of the plant required to produce AIP have been much debated. A field case in which catastrophic loses occurred in cattle ingesting hay containing purple mint showed that more than the green plants have the capability of producing atypical interstitial pneumonia. In this study, Perilla frutescens produced atypical interstitial pneumonia in three of five calves to which it was given. The amount required to produce the syndrome ranged from 2.3 to 15.5 kg of green seed stage mint and 11.8 kg of mint hay. The toxic syndromes were similar in signs, but quite different in duration. Necropsy examinations showed varied amounts of pulmonary emphysema and edema. Two of the three affected animals' lungs histologically displayed a marked proliferation of Type II pneumocytes. The flowering or seed parts of perilla mint were found by high pressure liquid chromatographic analysis to contain the highest concentration of perilla ketone, considered the most toxic agent involved. This stage of plant growth was also shown to be the most toxic in our calf feeding trial. Calves fed the flowering plant developed the toxic syndrome while those fed earlier plants (collected before seed stage) and late plants (collected after frost) remained asymptomatic. The time of year when perilla reaches the seed stage often corresponds to periods when pasture grass is scarce forcing cattle to consume plants not normally eaten when ample desirable forage is available.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS).
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:14 am

Thanks for the explanation. That's some scary stuff! We did have blue-green algae in the watershed lake 3 weeks ago and the toxicology results from Kansas State Veterinary Diagnostic Lab indicated there were high concentrations of cyanobacteria Anabaena that can produce toxins but no microcystin toxin detected (so no blue-green toxins but toxins from some other source). The pathologist wasn't too concerned about the effect on the cattle because while they had access to the algae/contaminated water, they were on the other side of the lake & the wind shifted that day, moving it to the north shore where they have no access. Well that, plus they would have been dead along with our dogs and anything else the lives in or drinks the water.

She was with the herd this morning. Still looks punky/droopy and she's not in the best mood but at least she's grazing. Wasn't able to take her temp.
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:41 pm

The temps you listed are "normal". You know your cattle. Obviously something is going on.
How about hardware? If anything, a cow will run a low to normal temp.
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:The temps you listed are "normal". You know your cattle. Obviously something is going on.
How about hardware? If anything, a cow will run a low to normal temp.

She has a magnet. Although "hardware" could also be attributed to a shard of glass, even a sharp piece of rock and it's unlikely but possible it never settled. That said, we've had our share of hardware (hence, all my cattle/bulls now have magnets) and she's not laying on her brisket for better air flow, no drooling or going off feed, no swelling under the jaw or in her legs, no coughing. She's just not right. Although she was still with the herd this afternoon and I'm heading back down shortly to check again & hopefully take her temp. The herd has been at the south pasture for a couple of days and if they follow their normal routine - and she stays with them - they should be heading back towards the central pasture in a day or so, making it somewhat doable to catch her. Like you said, I know my cattle and she was born/raised here; this is not her normal behavior but at least she's with the herd today so I'm somewhat relieved.
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby Dempster » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:57 pm

She looks like she has a big brisket, hardware is a possibility. Anaplasmosis should also be a consideration in your part of the country when you see a depressed adult in the summer.
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:26 pm

Dempster wrote:She looks like she has a big brisket, hardware is a possibility. Anaplasmosis should also be a consideration in your part of the country when you see a depressed adult in the summer.

Ironically her mama died of hardware 5 years ago. Her brisket has always been pretty large (fat) but I think she's lost weight, making it more pronounced. Checked her vulva, gums & eyes yesterday for discoloration and she was still a healthy pink, no jaundice. But both hardware & anaplas are still possibilities - never say never!
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:31 pm

BTW I was able to take her temp 'bout 15 minutes ago and it was up to 103.1. That said, it's 89/feels like 96 with 64% humidity & no breeze. Didn't want to press my luck by randomly taking temps of other cows but I'm assuming the heat/humidity would elevate their "normal" temp?
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:36 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Dempster wrote:She looks like she has a big brisket, hardware is a possibility. Anaplasmosis should also be a consideration in your part of the country when you see a depressed adult in the summer.

Ironically her mama died of hardware 5 years ago. Her brisket has always been pretty large (fat) but I think she's lost weight, making it more pronounced. Checked her vulva, gums & eyes yesterday for discoloration and she was still a healthy pink, no jaundice. But both hardware & anaplas are still possibilities - never say never!

Remembered this pic from 2.5 years ago. Even facing toward the camera you can tell she's got a hefty brisket.
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:24 am

Well, I'm calling this a case closed. She's back to 100%. I have no idea what was wrong (maybe something she ate disagreed with her?) but in 8 years I've never had to treat her for anything - she's never even had a limp - so seeing her droopy & away from the herd put me on high alert. Thanks for the support & suggestions! BTW I'm soooo keeping her calf as a replacement :heart:
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Re: Wait and see?

Postby wbvs58 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:50 pm

All good TC, a liberal application of the "tincture of time" does it again. Can't get any more "natural medicine" than that.

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Re: Wait and see?

Postby TCRanch » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:57 am

Uh oh! So much for acting perfectly fine the past 3 weeks. Tongue was sticking out yesterday, clearly in heat distress. Got her to the barn with good cross ventilation, hosed her down & put the shop fan on her, seemed to do the trick. Temp was 102.4 at 6:30 this morning and I noticed the skin under her chin looks saggy. Even though she has a magnet, my vet said it's possible it passed, going back to the possibility of hardware but she most likely has pneumonia. 90cc Resflor Gold and another magnet. Wait and see again. :(
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