Tetanus vaccine and banding

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sstterry
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Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby sstterry » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:29 am

I know that you should give a tetanus vaccination and last booster at least two weeks before banding. But, has anyone given the tetanus anti-toxin and the toxoid at the time of banding? It is my understanding that the anti-toxin would give about 7-10 days of protection and then the toxoid would be ramping up at about 14 days. By that time the risk of tetanus would hopefully be declining.

To get proper protection, it would require working the bull calves at least 3 times over the course of a month which is just not feasible for me. Am I totally off base here? I am amazed at the number of people in my area that simply give an 8way at the same time as banding and thinking that they are protected.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Lucky_P » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:40 am

You could do it that way, but i wouldn't count on the single dose of TT providing protection - the label recommendation for a booster dose is not there just so they can sell more vaccine... it's required in order to get adequate protection.

Folks are often quite lucky... some band with no thought or attention to tetanus... and skate freely with no problems... but I've seen some real trainwrecks with significant death losses.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby sstterry » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:58 am

Lucky_P wrote:You could do it that way, but i wouldn't count on the single dose of TT providing protection - the label recommendation for a booster dose is not there just so they can sell more vaccine... it's required in order to get adequate protection.

Folks are often quite lucky... some band with no thought or attention to tetanus... and skate freely with no problems... but I've seen some real trainwrecks with significant death losses.

Are there any Tetanus Toxoid vaccines that don't require a booster?
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby elkwc » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:44 am

sstterry wrote:I know that you should give a tetanus vaccination and last booster at least two weeks before banding. But, has anyone given the tetanus anti-toxin and the toxoid at the time of banding? It is my understanding that the anti-toxin would give about 7-10 days of protection and then the toxoid would be ramping up at about 14 days. By that time the risk of tetanus would hopefully be declining.

To get proper protection, it would require working the bull calves at least 3 times over the course of a month which is just not feasible for me. Am I totally off base here? I am amazed at the number of people in my area that simply give an 8way at the same time as banding and thinking that they are protected.


I had the same questions when I started considering bands. Everyone had a different opinion so talked to a few vets. One vet don’t even feel it is necessary as long as you don’t slit the bag. The others said 8 way would be enough and one of them said not to slit the bag. That if you were going too you would need to give a tetanus shot before. The only issue I know of around here was when the bags were slit.

I’m knocking on wood but so far o issues.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:26 am

sstterry wrote:
Lucky_P wrote:You could do it that way, but i wouldn't count on the single dose of TT providing protection - the label recommendation for a booster dose is not there just so they can sell more vaccine... it's required in order to get adequate protection.

Folks are often quite lucky... some band with no thought or attention to tetanus... and skate freely with no problems... but I've seen some real trainwrecks with significant death losses.

Are there any Tetanus Toxoid vaccines that don't require a booster?


All the TT vaccines that come to mind require two shots on initial vaccination to achieve the desired immunity.

Tetanus is caused by a Clostridial bacteria so it often comes in a combo ( 6 way, 7 way, 8 way, etc) as a "blackleg" vaccine. For example, Covexin 8 covers the Clostridium tetani species.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:07 am

Steve you might consider this plan:

Use Covexin 8 or other Clostridial that includes a TT component. Vaccinate the calves at about 8 weeks, band on the second vaccination at 14 weeks. By the time the bands would be at risk of causing an infection, the second TT will have elicited immunity.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Dempster » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:16 pm

The risk of tetanus when banding young calves at birth or branding time is much less then when banding a 500+ pound calf of weaning age or after. I probably wouldn't give anything for tetanus to a calf when banding at birth, and would be inclined to not do anything at branding time either. If you really want to play it safe, you could give all your bull calves a covexin or cavalry at birth and booster that dose at branding time and band then. However, most people could probably go a lifetime banding calved at branding and never see a tetanus case, especially if they domt have a history of tetanus on their farm before.

A single dose of tetanus toxoid at the time of banding probably does nothing to prevent tetanus. If you band a lot of larger calves and want protection, you need to find a way to at least get a dose in a month prior to working them. Additionally, if you are routinely banding a lot of weaning age or older calves, you need to make production changes to get these calves castrated sooner. Unless you are raising seed stock and making choices on which bulls to keep, I don't think there is any excuse to be banding most of your calves at weaning time.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby elkwc » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:51 pm

The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I’ve been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I’ve had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don’t slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don’t have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won’t be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don’t allow for penning.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:22 pm

elkwc wrote:The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I’ve been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I’ve had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don’t slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don’t have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won’t be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don’t allow for penning.


As far as your tetanus shot goes you had your primary vaccination as a baby and any subsequent ones are just a toxoid to which you respond very rapidly and that booster immunity stays high for several years, probably longer as they are cutting back on giving us boosters now.

As far as giving the TAT and TT together at time of castration, that is fine and is what I have done forever when treating horses of unknown vaccination status with open wounds forever. I do believe that active immunity from a completed vaccination program is better than the passive immunity from antitoxin.

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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Dempster » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:41 pm

elkwc wrote:The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I’ve been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I’ve had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don’t slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don’t have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won’t be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don’t allow for penning.


You can get a bag of green doughnut bands and a tool to put them on for less then $15, will handle any of your calves too small for your other banded. I don't think not having the proper equipment is a good reason to wait and put calves through the stress of being banded at 600 pounds.

Your vet is misinformed if he thinks a dose of toxoid at banding time helps. It has long been industry standard to just do the one dose at banding, and I would give it if I had one that I had to band without the opportunity to do an earlier dose, but it will provide no benefit.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby elkwc » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:11 pm

Dempster wrote:
elkwc wrote:The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I’ve been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I’ve had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don’t slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don’t have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won’t be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don’t allow for penning.[/quote

There have been 3 vets tell me that and they are all well respected and have large practices and so far what they have said has worked and I’m not going too change unless something happens. I won’t use the green doughnuts. Have seen too many issues. I’ll knife cut before then. We banded some 6 weight calves and they continued like nothing ever happened. They continued to gain the whole time.

You can get a bag of green doughnut bands and a tool to put them on for less then $15, will handle any of your calves too small for your other banded. I don't think not having the proper equipment is a good reason to wait and put calves through the stress of being banded at 600 pounds.

Your vet is misinformed if he thinks a dose of toxoid at banding time helps. It has long been industry standard to just do the one dose at banding, and I would give it if I had one that I had to band without the opportunity to do an earlier dose, but it will provide no benefit.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:24 pm

Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:08 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.


The band restricts blood flow to the tissues of the scrotum and testes. Including stopping flow of the testicular artery. That causes necrosis and leads to breaks in the skin's defenses. Tetani bacteria are ubiquitous. Especially in manure, soil, dirt, debris, etc. So the rubber band is the cause - it leads to strangulation at the top of the scrotum which puts the whole process in motion. I have never heard the moisture being a factor. Lucky can address that. I don't see any connection to horses being a factor.

If everything goes well, what I often see is a mummified scrotum without any significant necrosis.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby JMJ Farms » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:13 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.


The band restricts blood flow to the tissues of the scrotum and testes. Including stopping flow of the testicular artery. That causes necrosis and leads to breaks in the skin's defenses. Tetani bacteria are ubiquitous. Especially in manure, soil, dirt, debris, etc. So the rubber band is the cause - it leads to strangulation at the top of the scrotum which puts the whole process in motion. I have never heard the moisture being a factor. Lucky can address that. I don't see any connection to horses being a factor.


I’ve heard of horses being a factor in increasing risk of tetanus. Don’t know if this is correct or not, but I’ve heard of it.
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Re: Tetanus vaccine and banding

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:16 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.


The band restricts blood flow to the tissues of the scrotum and testes. Including stopping flow of the testicular artery. That causes necrosis and leads to breaks in the skin's defenses. Tetani bacteria are ubiquitous. Especially in manure, soil, dirt, debris, etc. So the rubber band is the cause - it leads to strangulation at the top of the scrotum which puts the whole process in motion. I have never heard the moisture being a factor. Lucky can address that. I don't see any connection to horses being a factor.


I’ve heard of horses being a factor in increasing risk of tetanus. Don’t know if this is correct or not, but I’ve heard of it.


I hope Lucky does address that. I cannot think of any epidemiological connection. Tetani is not a communicable infection. It is simply widespread in the environment.
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