Rabies Symptoms?

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Katpau
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Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Katpau » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:21 am

Are cattle with rabies always uncoordinated?

I had a calf die last night and I have not been able to contact a Vet this AM with questions. None open until 9:00 and my direct cell phone numbers just roll to answering machine. It has been 100 degrees for several days and I am not sure if I should be trying to get the brain now.

The calf was a mile from the herd yesterday afternoon and obviously in distress. Breathing in little gasps and foaming from the mouth with tongue slightly protruding. We were able to easily herd it into the corrals. (Bad sign) He was moving OK but slow. In the corral he seemed to drink and pick at some hay. I drove back out of the Valley, contacted a Vet and got a prescription to pick up some Resflor Gold at the Coop just 4 mile away. When we got back down to the calf he peed and it looked clear and normal. At about 4:30PM we put him in the chute to give him the shot and check his temperature. He struggled and leaped up and down in the chute after I caught his head. There was a lot of foam by then, and his tongue was sticking way out. I stupidly stuck my hand in his mouth without a glove looking for any obstruction. We got a temp of 105 degrees on him and he went down. Managed to get him up and out of the chute and into the shade, but the temperature was still in the high 90's. He hung over the water making those gasps, foaming at the mouth and trying to drink. I could not tell if he was actually getting anything down. We made a mist with the hose and tried to cool him. Went back to the house about 5:30 to cool ourselves. This is a large ranch and the house is about 1 mile up out of the valley from the corrals. When we checked at 7:00 PM he seemed about the same. At 5:30 AM he was dead.

Could this be rabies? He had many symptoms but seemed to walk fine.
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Caustic Burno
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:58 am

Lepto sounds like to me.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Katpau » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:12 am

Urine was clear. We vaccinate cows for Lepto twice per year with Vira Shield 6 +VL5 HB. Calf was 5 months.

If it is relevant, I should mention that daytime highs have been in the high 90's low 100's while night time lows are high 50's to low 60's. Very hard on cows (and people working outside). I think the calves lungs were full of fluid judging by the sound he made trying to breath. Surprisingly, there was very little drainage from the nostrils when we brought him in. He seemed to gasp in through his mouth and then close the mouth and blow out the nose.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:17 am

Katpau wrote:Urine was clear. We vaccinate cows for Lepto twice per year with Vira Shield 6 +VL5 HB. Calf was 5 months.


I am really beginning to wonder on some of these lepto vaccines effectiveness in some of the stuff I am reading.
I agree if you stated it before 5 months I missed tahat is a little old to be getting deathly ill from lepto. Blackleg is a different story.
Did you feel the back leg muscles?
If so did they feel like Fritos that blackleg.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Katpau » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:22 am

Caustic Burno wrote:
Katpau wrote:Urine was clear. We vaccinate cows for Lepto twice per year with Vira Shield 6 +VL5 HB. Calf was 5 months.


I am really beginning to wonder on some of these lepto vaccines effectiveness in some of the stuff I am reading.
I agree if you stated it before 5 months is a little old to be getting deathly ill fro lepto. Blackleg is a different story.
Did you feel the back leg muscles?
If so did they feel like Fritos that blackleg.

I will check when I go back down. I am waiting on a call from the Vet at the house. Cell phone does not work well in the valley. Landline sucks too. Lots of static, but hard to get anyone out to fix it, since there is more than a mile between us and another possible landline. I think it is too expensive for Century Link to deal with the few of us that still have out of the way Landlines.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Katpau » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:34 am

I looked up symptoms of Blackleg. He was not lame. We do vaccinate the cows for the clostridial diseases, but the calves were not done yet. This was one of the oldest calves and The youngest are only 4 months. It is too hot to stress cattle with vaccinations this time of year, so calves will get first vaccinations when it cools off.
I think it was pneumonia, but I have had very little experience with that, so I am not sure. The foamy mouth scares me, and I don't know if that Is just because his lungs were so full of fluid? We have been very lucky on this Ranch. We have only lost a few calves in almost 25 years to respiratory issues. I guess my luck ran out.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby 76 Bar » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:05 pm

General overview...not mentioned but head pressing e.g. response to severe distress is often observed.
http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/261/rabies/
You need the carcass and especially the head. Hoping by now you've heard from your vet. You're understandably distressed...thinking positive thoughts for a good outcome.
FWIW my thought is also pneumonia & exacerbated by the prevailing environmental issues.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby skyhightree1 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:27 pm

all i can tell you is this i went through a calf with rabies ordeal and had to get the shots had i not it could have been fatal had the cab autopsied at the state lab they called and told me go to nearest hospital asap and start the shots.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Katpau » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:28 pm

The Vet finally returned my call. With this heat there is plenty of business and an already dead calf took low priority. He said with rabies at that advanced state there would have definitely been neurological signs. He did not feel taking the head was necessary and said that the frothing was most likely from the fluid in the lungs. I don't have any injury's to my hand that was in the mouth, so I feel the risk was pretty low anyway, but I will think twice about not using gloves in the future. I do tend to be rather careless with my own safety when handling both sick animals and chemicals.

I actually had noticed that calf on Friday. I wish I had run him in and taken a temperature then. I was walking through the cows doing an inventory and did not find him among the 36 other calves in that field. His Mom then called softly and walked over to him hiding in the reeds maybe 30 feet away. I thought it odd he had not stood up when the others started to move. They always expect me to rotate pastures when I do inventory, so they gather their calves. I thought he was breathing shallow, but my husband said it wasn't any different than the others in that heat. He nursed and followed the cow to the water tank, so I told myself I was just being over cautious. He was calf 1813 and it was Friday the 13th. I am not superstitious but....
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby skyhightree1 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:38 pm

Katpau wrote:The Vet finally returned my call. With this heat there is plenty of business and an already dead calf took low priority. He said with rabies at that advanced state there would have definitely been neurological signs. He did not feel taking the head was necessary and said that the frothing was most likely from the fluid in the lungs. I don't have any injury's to my hand that was in the mouth, so I feel the risk was pretty low anyway, but I will think twice about not using gloves in the future. I do tend to be rather careless with my own safety when handling both sick animals and chemicals.

I actually had noticed that calf on Friday. I wish I had run him in and taken a temperature then. I was walking through the cows doing an inventory and did not find him among the 36 other calves in that field. His Mom then called softly and walked over to him hiding in the reeds maybe 30 feet away. I thought it odd he had not stood up when the others started to move. They always expect me to rotate pastures when I do inventory, so they gather their calves. I thought he was breathing shallow, but my husband said it wasn't any different than the others in that heat. He nursed and followed the cow to the water tank, so I told myself I was just being over cautious. He was calf 1813 and it was Friday the 13th. I am not superstitious but....


I tell ya what my hand had no injuries but i still went through the shots cause if you get it you cant be treated for it.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby JMJ Farms » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:14 pm

skyhightree1 wrote:
Katpau wrote:The Vet finally returned my call. With this heat there is plenty of business and an already dead calf took low priority. He said with rabies at that advanced state there would have definitely been neurological signs. He did not feel taking the head was necessary and said that the frothing was most likely from the fluid in the lungs. I don't have any injury's to my hand that was in the mouth, so I feel the risk was pretty low anyway, but I will think twice about not using gloves in the future. I do tend to be rather careless with my own safety when handling both sick animals and chemicals.

I actually had noticed that calf on Friday. I wish I had run him in and taken a temperature then. I was walking through the cows doing an inventory and did not find him among the 36 other calves in that field. His Mom then called softly and walked over to him hiding in the reeds maybe 30 feet away. I thought it odd he had not stood up when the others started to move. They always expect me to rotate pastures when I do inventory, so they gather their calves. I thought he was breathing shallow, but my husband said it wasn't any different than the others in that heat. He nursed and followed the cow to the water tank, so I told myself I was just being over cautious. He was calf 1813 and it was Friday the 13th. I am not superstitious but....


I tell ya what my hand had no injuries but i still went through the shots cause if you get it you cant be treated for it.


Correct. Went through the rabies ordeal with my two boys. Long story short they were in direct contact with a friend of mine’s yellow lab. Playing with her, hands in mouth, etc. 5 days later she was dead and when tested she tested positive for rabies. There’s a time window between exposure and infection. I believe it may have been 10 days? I can’t recall. Anyway we were on the next to last day to start treatment before it would be too late to do any good. We literally called doctors all over the world. Everyone of them said the chance for infection without an open wound or a bite was very slim. But NOT ONE said “don’t take the shots”. All recommended to be safe and not sorry. I took the chance without hesitation but I couldn’t do it with my kids. So they went through an initial dose of two shots and then a series of four more and $18k later, no more worries. They were very young, like maybe 6&4 but they haven’t forgotten it. They remember every trip we made.

My thoughts from the outside looking in is pneumonia. But if you have a serious concern that it may be rabies you might want to be sure. The chances you that you could have possibly contracted it are probably almost nonexistent. I’m not one to panic but like Sky said there ain’t no second chances once you have it.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby elkwc » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:32 pm

In my opinion it was pneumonia or a resporitory illness. I see the frothing around the mouth on some. If you find them soon enough Nuflor or Draxxin will work at least 90% of the time.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby bird dog » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:08 pm

I think the calf has been sick somewhere in the past and you didn't notice it. Easy to do unless you are looking for it. In may have just started just last week as you noted. The big swings in temps might have brought it on. In the mean time the lungs were severely damaged.

Now throw in hotter than normal temps and the calf could not get air into lungs that were still developing an now damaged. With not enough air to the lungs, not enough air to the heart and the heart gave out. The calf would have probably been a lunger if you could have saved it.

It happens around our area in October. Thats why they call it the dead calf month. My calves stay pretty healthy through the hottest part of the year because the temp is consistent. Heck its 90 degrees at 10 PM these days.

All you can do is learn from your mistake. It pays to always keep a good antibiotic on the shelf so when you need it, you have it. I find checking the animals temperature very difficult when its very hot and don't trust it anyway. Not staying up with the herd is usually the first sign you will notice.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby elkwc » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm

What we see here we call quick pneumonia. They can be fine of the morning and real sick by night and dead by the following afternoon. So why some are checking their cattle at least once if not twice a day now. They don't last over 2 days from when it hits them.
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Re: Rabies Symptoms?

Postby Katpau » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:56 pm

I should have gone with my gut on the 13th, but hindsight is always 20/20. It has been unbearably hot the last week and we have been getting up really early to try and spray Starthistle before it gets too hot. Climbing steep hills with a full tank of spray on your back really takes the snot out of you and I have not checked cows like I probably should. We were also out of state for a week visiting my Dad who has Parkinson's, so I did not see them until we returned and did a quick inventory on the 11th. I had not noticed anything different about him then, but I was just checking off numbers as my husband called them out. I might not have even seen him myself. When I think about it, I had thought he had lost a little ground to some of the other bulls when we moved that group just before we left. He had looked pretty fancy at about 3-4 months, but was middle of the pack by then. He apparently wasn't eating for some time because the cow had left him yesterday and was with the main group a mile away. We located him where I had last saw them on the 13th. She never returned to look for him, although she did call out each time another calf would come out of the woods into the clearing they were grazing in.
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