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Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:41 am
by angus9259
This is the first year I've done it. I bought an XL bander. Probably would have bought the calicrate but it seemed more complicated AND more expensive at the time. The XL bander worked fine for me though. I used it on a bigger (650 lb) bull. Sack took a long time to fall off, but it didn't seem to bother him at all so I didn't let it bother me. I used toxoid because the manufacturer insisted and specifically said NOT to use antitoxin. That's the only basis I have.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:14 pm
by jt
i have used the california bander several times and i like it. i give a tet shot 30 days prior to banding and another at banding. my understanding is that it is not until the second shot that you actually have protection.

jt

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:38 pm
by Devin
Thanks for all of the info. I have never let my bull calves go and not castrated them because we like to sell in the select sales. I should have made time when they hit the ground to do it back in the fall, but whats done is done. I'm gonna give this a try. Thanks again for all of the input.
Devin

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:57 pm
by Texas PaPaw
Stocker Steve wrote:How big of an incision?


1 to 2 inches. Quick swipe with a sharp knife does it.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:58 pm
by larryshoat
msscamp wrote:
larryshoat wrote:I think for the toxoid you would need to get 2 rounds of that in them prior to castrating to have immunity, the antitoxin is for treatment of tetanus .
Larry


No, that is not true. The toxoid takes about 10 days to build immunity, but one injection will protect against tetanus. I've used the toxoid with my goats, and we've used also used it with banded bulls that vary in age from 7 months to a year old. No problems in any of them.




TETANUS TOXOID-CONCENTRATED

Colorado Serum

Tetanus Toxoid

U.S. Vet. Lic. No.: 188

Active Ingredient(s): Prepared by detoxifying tetanus toxin with a formaldehyde solution and moderate heat in such a manner that the antigenic properties remain intact.

The product is refined to remove most of the nonspecific components and concentrated to provide a low dose effective immunizing agent.

Each serial is tested for purity, safety, and potency in accordance with the applicable standard requirements issued by the United States Department of Agriculture.

Contains thimerosal as a preservative.

Indications: For the vaccination of cattle, horses, sheep, goats and swine against tetanus.

Dosage and Administration: The toxoid requires three (3) to four (4) weeks to establish an effective level of protection and should be used only in non-emergency instances. Booster injections should be made annually or at the time of injury regardless of interval.

Inject intramuscularly as follows:

For horses and cattle, at least two (2) doses of 1 mL each.

For sheep, goats and swine, two (2) doses of 0.5 mL each. The interval between doses should be approximately 30 days. Revaccinate all animals retained for breeding and those held beyond the normal marketing period annually. Use the full dose as recommended above.

Precaution(s): Shake well before using. Store in the dark at 2-7°C.

Sterilize syringes and needles by boiling in clean water.

Caution(s): Transitory local reaction may appear at the site of administration.

Anaphylaxis (shock) may sometimes follow the use of products of this nature. Epinephrine, or an equivalent drug, should be available for immediate use in these instances.

Use the entire contents when first opened. For veterinary use only.

Warning(s): Do not vaccinate within 21 days before slaughter.

Discussion: Tetanus is caused by a toxin (poison) produced by the growth of Clostridium tetani, an anaerobic (lives without air) micro-organism that may be carried into the wounds or sites of surgical operations.

Affected animals become stiff, have great difficulty swallowing and the pulse rate is increased. Breathing is labored. Spasmodic contractions of the muscle system occurs, extending muscles of the jaw. Thus, the term lockjaw is frequently applied. Legs are often spread, the tail is stiff with the abdominal muscles retracted. Tetanus stricken animals may be unusually sensitive to light and heat. The temperature of the animal generally remains normal, elevating only shortly before death.

Presentation: 10 x 1 dose (10 x 1 mL) and 10 dose (10 mL) vials.

Larry

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:15 pm
by jbar
california bander,this one works for me.
i bought this bander because a buddy of mine had the high dollar ones .
he bought a california bander and dosnt use the high dollar one.
i give covexen 8 at time of banding and have had no problems.

as for cutting off the bag make sure it is cold to the touch(not warm from blood flow)

what i do with sale barn cutting bulls:

give triangle 4,covexen8,wormer,vitamin a, this is done next day after purchase.
watch close for first 7-12days for sickness.give la200,nuflor if any sign of sickness.
day 12 i give 2nd round of triangle 4 and cut off bag below band.
this is about the 5th set of cutting bulls i done with no problems.

the next ones i will trying small cut in the bag.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:55 am
by msscamp
larryshoat wrote:
msscamp wrote:
larryshoat wrote:I think for the toxoid you would need to get 2 rounds of that in them prior to castrating to have immunity, the antitoxin is for treatment of tetanus .
Larry


No, that is not true. The toxoid takes about 10 days to build immunity, but one injection will protect against tetanus. I've used the toxoid with my goats, and we've used also used it with banded bulls that vary in age from 7 months to a year old. No problems in any of them.




TETANUS TOXOID-CONCENTRATED

Colorado Serum

Tetanus Toxoid

U.S. Vet. Lic. No.: 188

Active Ingredient(s): Prepared by detoxifying tetanus toxin with a formaldehyde solution and moderate heat in such a manner that the antigenic properties remain intact.

The product is refined to remove most of the nonspecific components and concentrated to provide a low dose effective immunizing agent.

Each serial is tested for purity, safety, and potency in accordance with the applicable standard requirements issued by the United States Department of Agriculture.

Contains thimerosal as a preservative.

Indications: For the vaccination of cattle, horses, sheep, goats and swine against tetanus.

Dosage and Administration: The toxoid requires three (3) to four (4) weeks to establish an effective level of protection and should be used only in non-emergency instances. Booster injections should be made annually or at the time of injury regardless of interval.

Inject intramuscularly as follows:

For horses and cattle, at least two (2) doses of 1 mL each.

For sheep, goats and swine, two (2) doses of 0.5 mL each. The interval between doses should be approximately 30 days. Revaccinate all animals retained for breeding and those held beyond the normal marketing period annually. Use the full dose as recommended above.

Precaution(s): Shake well before using. Store in the dark at 2-7°C.

Sterilize syringes and needles by boiling in clean water.

Caution(s): Transitory local reaction may appear at the site of administration.

Anaphylaxis (shock) may sometimes follow the use of products of this nature. Epinephrine, or an equivalent drug, should be available for immediate use in these instances.

Use the entire contents when first opened. For veterinary use only.

Warning(s): Do not vaccinate within 21 days before slaughter.

Discussion: Tetanus is caused by a toxin (poison) produced by the growth of Clostridium tetani, an anaerobic (lives without air) micro-organism that may be carried into the wounds or sites of surgical operations.

Affected animals become stiff, have great difficulty swallowing and the pulse rate is increased. Breathing is labored. Spasmodic contractions of the muscle system occurs, extending muscles of the jaw. Thus, the term lockjaw is frequently applied. Legs are often spread, the tail is stiff with the abdominal muscles retracted. Tetanus stricken animals may be unusually sensitive to light and heat. The temperature of the animal generally remains normal, elevating only shortly before death.

Presentation: 10 x 1 dose (10 x 1 mL) and 10 dose (10 mL) vials.

Larry


Whatever. I have complete faith in my vet, and he is the one who told me that one shot of toxoid at banding is sufficient. Considering the fact that we have been doing it this way for a number of years - on both cattle and my new goat venture, I'm thinking we would have had a problem by now if he was wrong. I don't suppose it ever occured to you that the drug companies make money by recommending extra shots, did it? Your cut and paste is along the lines of tossing drugs exactly at their expiration date, even though they are generally good for another 6 months. You might want to consider that.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:12 am
by KNERSIE
Good post Larry! (you just shouldn't make a habit of spoiling a good story with facts. ;-) )

Note to newbies:

When in doubt rather follow the instructions on the label. Only use differently under the instruction of an experienced large animal vet.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:22 pm
by hillsdown
what? wrote:
KNERSIE wrote:Good post Larry! (you just shouldn't make a habit of spoiling a good story with facts. ;-) )

Note to newbies:

When in doubt rather follow the instructions on the label. Only use differently under the instruction of an experienced large animal vet.
HOW DOES A PERSON KNOW WHEN A LARGE ANIMAL VET IS EXPERIENCED?



From the cowsh@t on their boots ,or that funny crook in their arm from palpating all those cattle.. :lol2: :banana:

Just kidding as they should always put on disinfected foot wear when they step out of their vehicle and go to where the cattle are.. :)

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:14 pm
by GMN
.[/quote]HOW DOES A PERSON KNOW WHEN A LARGE ANIMAL VET IS EXPERIENCED?[/quote]

Believe me you can tell, after many years, and many vets, which ones are good and which ones aren't. I had this one vet come out once, old timer, set in his ways, just by some of his techniques, I could tell he wasn't that great. The good ones, care about the animals, and have the confidence that they can do it all, but aren't overbearing jerks about it. My fave large animal vet retired 2 years ago, and I still miss him, he was a great Vet, but even a better person, a sly sense of humor, and told it like it was.

GMN

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:51 pm
by donnaIL
msscamp wrote:Whatever. I have complete faith in my vet, and he is the one who told me that one shot of toxoid at banding is sufficient. Considering the fact that we have been doing it this way for a number of years - on both cattle and my new goat venture, I'm thinking we would have had a problem by now if he was wrong. I don't suppose it ever occured to you that the drug companies make money by recommending extra shots, did it? Your cut and paste is along the lines of tossing drugs exactly at their expiration date, even though they are generally good for another 6 months. You might want to consider that.


Thats what we do also with the calicrate bander - 1 shot. I believe the instructions tell you that also. The way it was explained to me was when you band give the shot-- the tetanus toxoid takes a few weeks to get in their system/be effective and the band does not immediately make a wound..so you are protecting them for the near future. Thankfully we've had no problems.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:41 pm
by braunvieh
what? wrote:
preston39 wrote:I might point out that castration is... a one trip....process.

We castrate with the sign in the left knee...going down. Never had a bleeder,infection or any other residual side effect.


What do you mean by sign in the left knee....going down. Never heard it before.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:00 pm
by preston39
braunvieh wrote:
what? wrote:
preston39 wrote:I might point out that castration is... a one trip....process.

We castrate with the sign in the left knee...going down. Never had a bleeder,infection or any other residual side effect.


What do you mean by sign in the left knee....going down. Never heard it before.
====================
Sorry for the brevity;

Farmers Almanac publishes dates/signs when it right to dehorn; castrate, etc. We have found that it works for castration. Never tried it on anything else...we have Angus. ;-)

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:08 pm
by Idunknow
I've done about 10 head with the calicrate. Had one 800+ that I guess I rolled the band on. Had one slip back through about two weeks later. Decided to reband to stop the bleeding, that band cut off what was hanging just when it got tight. Not pretty!!! Had some take longer than what they say. Gave tetanus to all. Had a couple start smelling before they fell off. Heard great things on it, prob operator error. Still deciding on what to use this year. Working them next week, have some 4-6 mo olds. Going to start banding at birth I think due to research I've seen.

Re: Banding bull calves at older age

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:54 am
by WalnutCrest
Banding at birth may lead to slower growth during their first few months ... fwiw ...

But then again, banding later and messing up will set them back a ways, too.