Calving

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City Guy
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Re: Calving

Postby City Guy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:00 am

talltimber: Now that is info I can use! The pink eye danger eluded me. I'll be sure to mention that I heard it from a person I know to be absolutely honest. Thanks
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Supa Dexta
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Re: Calving

Postby Supa Dexta » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:25 am

You just don't get it. You go on and on about everything you know and have learnt over so many yrs - and that you learned it from real people and real books.. Maybe go out and get some real experience yourself before acting like a know-it-all. Go endure something that even remotely resembles a wreck. But for f sakes, read more and talk less. You paint yourself as a pretentious a.ss hole in every thread.
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angus9259
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Re: Calving

Postby angus9259 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:07 am

City Guy wrote:GOOD GRIEF, DON'T YOU GUYS LISTEN? I am at the point in my studies where I no longer look for info that supports my preconceived ideas, but rather I seek ideas to the contrary!


If you are at the point where you are looking for contrarian views then why are you so wound up that WE aren't listening? If you want us to learn from your ignorance, then why did this entire argument start with your desire to pass on knowledge to us re the best time to calve? Perhaps you also want us to learn from your knowledge?

You seem like a smart guy that has learned a lot through reading and talking with producers. Nice work. But you don't seem to be listening either from many on these boards that are suggesting that if you REALLY want to learn now - you go DO.
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cmay
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Re: Calving

Postby cmay » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:13 pm

City Guy wrote:The cow will consume about 50% more feed in her last month of gestation than her calf will in it's first 4 months of life (grass, I'm talking about) so cow's needs are paramount. Around here (Central IL) that means letting her graze new grass from mid-March till late April and calving late April thru end of May.
Otherwise buy expensive hay and supplements and when the new grass comes along the calves will be standing in it while they nurse! When a May born calf is really beginning to graze, the cool season grasses are making a comeback (September). This is ranching in sync with nature!
Unless you have excellent quality stockpiled grass there is no good reason to calve any other seasons but spring and fall.


The cow needs the best feed when she is nursing a calf - not before. The calves SHOULD be standing in good grass while they nurse. As for your last sentence - it shows lack of experience and lack of exposure to diverse operations.
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City Guy
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Re: Calving

Postby City Guy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:19 pm

What I meant by the calf standing in tall grass was that the cow had missed it when she needed it the last month of gestation, sorry I didn't say it better. Of course she needs her best nutrition when she is lactating but that reinforces my point. Where is the good grass in February or March? Florida, maybe? OK great. Hawaii? great again. South Texas? Super!

And you are correct, I have not actually been on a ranch where mob grazing or stockpiling are practiced. But I have been around farms where it is NOT practiced and I don't like what I see. Skinny cattle eating poor quality hay in mud packed lots. I have traveled to ranches that buy 4-color shiny ads in the breed magazines and been so shocked at the down right filthy and dangerous conditions. I can support more cows on my lawn than some of these people can support on 10 acres of these outdoor gymnasiums they call pastures. Maybe I'd be just as disappointed with mob grazing outfits, but I doubt it.
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Re: Calving

Postby City Guy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:01 pm

Supa Dexta and angus9259; Yes I am a pretensions a.sshole and I'm sorry. I really don't mean to antagonize anyone.

I do get frustrated however when I bring up a point of fact or opinion and get answers like "stop reading and start doing" Don't you think I would if I could?? Responses like that are not answers; they are childish and completely useless.
DOING IT is totally impossible for me for personal physical, financial and marital reasons. Might as well tell me to have a baby just so I know what it's like!
When I ask a question or state an opinion, even if I sound like a pretentious a.sshole, all I want is an answer or a rebuttal or a suggestion or a point in the right direction. Even "go to be nice you pretentious a.sshole", would be better that " go do it and see what happens". At least go to be nice is honest.
Frankly, when I get a reply like "go do it yourself and you'll see" I get a sick feeling that the person doesn't know the answer.
It has been my life long experience that when I engage people about their professions they are eager to discuss it (unless they are CIA spies). I don't get that from SOME of you guys. I have asked dozens of cattlepersons these or similar questions and shared opinions and the majority are civil and usually helpful and polite. What's wrong here? I suspect my brazen attitude isn't helping and I'll work on controlling it.
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inyati13
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Re: Calving

Postby inyati13 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:22 pm

City Guy wrote:Supa Dexta and angus9259; Yes I am a pretensions a.sshole and I'm sorry. I really don't mean to antagonize anyone.

I do get frustrated however when I bring up a point of fact or opinion and get answers like "stop reading and start doing" Don't you think I would if I could?? Responses like that are not answers; they are childish and completely useless.
DOING IT is totally impossible for me for personal physical, financial and marital reasons. Might as well tell me to have a baby just so I know what it's like!
When I ask a question or state an opinion, even if I sound like a pretentious a.sshole, all I want is an answer or a rebuttal or a suggestion or a point in the right direction. Even "go to be nice you pretentious a.sshole", would be better that " go do it and see what happens". At least go to be nice is honest.
Frankly, when I get a reply like "go do it yourself and you'll see" I get a sick feeling that the person doesn't know the answer.
It has been my life long experience that when I engage people about their professions they are eager to discuss it (unless they are CIA spies). I don't get that from SOME of you guys. I have asked dozens of cattlepersons these or similar questions and shared opinions and the majority are civil and usually helpful and polite. What's wrong here? I suspect my brazen attitude isn't helping and I'll work on controlling it.


First, this is a great line:

Might as well tell me to have a baby just so I know what it's like!

Second, you ask what is wrong here? You stated:
DOING IT is totally impossible for me for personal physical, financial and marital reasons.

If it is totally impossible for you to practice the vocation of cattle husbandry, then, only a user who is bored out of their mind is going to waste time responding to your convoluted dialog.

Third, the vocation of cattle husbandry is as much an art as it is a science. You fail to appreciate that cattleman are skilled. There is an art to what they do. You approach it as if it is an Algebra equation. You ask a question. If the response to the question does not fit your equation, you whine.

Fourth, you are not trusted. You are not trusted because your engagement has the smell of being disingenuous.

Fifth, it is a free and open forum. If you don't break the rules, knock yourself out.

Lastly, use your time wisely! Life is short.
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tater74
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Re: Calving

Postby tater74 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:57 pm

I was going to respond, but Inyati covered all my points and said it a lot better than I would have.
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cow pollinater
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Re: Calving

Postby cow pollinater » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:00 pm

City Guy wrote: Of course she needs her best nutrition when she is lactating but that reinforces my point. Where is the good grass in February or March? Florida, maybe? OK great. Hawaii? great again. South Texas? Super!

The cow doesn't hit peak milk for around forty five days and baby calves don't eat all that much so it's best to calve BEFORE the grass comes. They're still fairly cheap to feed and the calves get some age on them so that the first grass comes just about the time they're able to handle all that milk without scouring and can also use the grass themselves.
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f1tiger
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Re: Calving

Postby f1tiger » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:03 pm

Here in northeast Texas we calve starting around Feb 10 ; sometimes mother nature will throw a curve and we will get in single digits but that is life: I am a man of a few words but please mr city guy here is a quarter and call someone who cares .....
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cmay
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Re: Calving

Postby cmay » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:25 pm

"Many of you say you have XXX years experience, but do you really? Maybe it was the same year repeated XXX times. Be honest, except for trying a different bull of a new fly spray or some such thing, was this year much different than last year or the year before that?"

This question/statement also shows your lack of experience. The people with XXX years experience have never repeated the same year. The same year never occurs. Temperature is different, breed up is different, hay quality is different, moisture is different, grass quality is different. Experience leads a good cattleman to manage to the averages with some backup plans in place.

You say you are just trying to learn, and then you make a statement like this - "Unless you have excellent quality stockpiled grass there is no good reason to calve any other seasons but spring and fall." That's not you trying to learn. That's you trying to teach. And it's completely wrong. There are dozens of reasons to calve at different times. Raising cattle is an extremely diverse industry. You have already been told this - There is no single correct way to raise cattle.

People have tried to explain things to you, but you remain dismissive if what they tell you doesn't fit in your box.
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KMURBAN
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Re: Calving

Postby KMURBAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:29 pm

City Guy wrote:Dun; Now we're getting somewhere--"grazing fescue is different than grazing other grasses" Do tell please. Start from the beginning and leave nothing out if you would, please. I know the endophytes are concentrated in the stems and seed heads and it is worst in summer, but manifests in winter. Would it be wise (even possible) to cut the seed heads off (say about the top 5-6 inches) or maybe cut the stuff in June as hay and maybe again in Aug? Sept? before seed heads form again. Would that leave time to stockpile for winter?


If your not ranching how would you even know if you had fescue. If you did have fescue how do you know you don't have enough other grasses to dilute the endophytes. Without actually ranching a specific piece of land, you cannot learn anything about "grazing" Notta, Zilch, Zero. It is very fluid and changes day to day and is definitely a "Art" the only thing others or a book can do is give you a 100 ideas on how to do it wrong. Just saying...
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KMURBAN
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Re: Calving

Postby KMURBAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:06 pm

My favorite quote.

If you went to school and got a education and think your educated. You are sadly mistaken.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Calving

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:39 pm

How did this get started up again (2016 - 2018??)
Is this CityGuy - Bullet????
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KMURBAN
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Re: Calving

Postby KMURBAN » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:31 pm

Sorry, was just browsing posts, didn't notice the date. I'll shut up...
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