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Re: Hay

Postby Dogs and Cows » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:47 am

FiveOaksFarmGA wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
sackshowcattle wrote:I think location and how much work you want to put into it determines if there is value in it. I put up small squares of alfalfa. Cows get top and bottom bales from the stacks and the balance in first cutting. Its a pivot so we get 3 or 4 cuttings a year. If you live down south were this is minimal winter feeding it wouldn't be much value. If your rolling round bales those are still cheap here currently. If you live here in the West with all the cattle coming out of the mountains in the winter and feed for 6 months there is value in it. I adveraged around 4 bucks a bale on small squares this year with about 1500 more bales to sale this year of the 6000 I had to sale after my supply for the cattle was filled. So to me it is very profitable the sale hay paid all the cost turned a profit plus supplied my cattle with all winter feed. One of my uncle's use to say if your going to be in the hay business you have to have cows cause you will have good hay that picky horse people will refuse to feed.


There is some truth in that statement but if you're going to "tell me" it's good hay you better be able to show me it's good hay as with a good hay test that will prove that just because it looks like shyt it's really good hay. ;-) I never buy hay without a test. I pull the sample, I pay for the test, but allow you to mail the sample and have results returned directly to you.


How you "pull" that sample can alter the outcome of the test. Selling hay to some people is a pain. There are more buyers than sellers. You wouldn't pull one of mine. I'd show you the test (taken with a hay core sampler the proper way), your decision after that. Would you let someone come on your farm and do that? I think not. Seems rather insulting to me, after I've spent the time and money to prove the quality, after spending the time and money to get the quality.


I don't think it is insulting...I think it is smart. You yourself said you already have your hay tested...so you wouldn't need to worry about it. I'm like TB...I only buy from a local neighbor who shows me his tests every year.

Believe it or not...there are more people selling junk hay than like you...and it is buyer beware...I test or don't buy.

Tim

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Re: Hay

Postby M.Magis » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:59 am

Being insulted because someone wants to have their own test completed would be like the guy selling a car getting insulted because a potential buyer wanted his mechanic to check it out. As a buyer, I'd find someone else to buy from.

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Re: Hay

Postby TexasBred » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:04 am

FiveOaksFarmGA wrote:How you "pull" that sample can alter the outcome of the test. Selling hay to some people is a pain. There are more buyers than sellers. You wouldn't pull one of mine. I'd show you the test (taken with a hay core sampler the proper way), your decision after that. Would you let someone come on your farm and do that? I think not. Seems rather insulting to me, after I've spent the time and money to prove the quality, after spending the time and money to get the quality.

Hay sampling is not a highly sophisticated process. Just make sure you get a "representative" sample of the hay in question and submit it to a reputable lab. I'd pull one on yours or never buy hay from you. Seen too many hay jockies use one test result for every bale or roll of hay they have for sale. If it offends you or you consider it an insult then you probably have something you're not wanting me to know about the hay. As I said previously.....you can tell me how good it is all day long but in the end you must show me it's just as good as you say it is and the only honest way to do this is have the hay tested. What say I let you do the sampling and mailing?? I'll pay you what it's worth !!!!
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Re: Hay

Postby M-5 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:34 am

TexasBred wrote:
FiveOaksFarmGA wrote:How you "pull" that sample can alter the outcome of the test. Selling hay to some people is a pain. There are more buyers than sellers. You wouldn't pull one of mine. I'd show you the test (taken with a hay core sampler the proper way), your decision after that. Would you let someone come on your farm and do that? I think not. Seems rather insulting to me, after I've spent the time and money to prove the quality, after spending the time and money to get the quality.

Hay sampling is not a highly sophisticated process. Just make sure you get a "representative" sample of the hay in question and submit it to a reputable lab. I'd pull one on yours or never buy hay from you. Seen too many hay jockies use one test result for every bale or roll of hay they have for sale. If it offends you or you consider it an insult then you probably have something you're not wanting me to know about the hay. As I said previously.....you can tell me how good it is all day long but in the end you must show me it's just as good as you say it is and the only honest way to do this is have the hay tested. What say I let you do the sampling and mailing?? I'll pay you what it's worth !!!!


a lot of them could be interchanged with mule traders , farriers , horse breeders, brick masons and roofers . I know a bunch and would not trust them any further than I can throw em
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Re: Hay

Postby FiveOaksFarmGA » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:40 pm

Of course I know there is crap hay being sold as "great hay," but I typically don't need a hay test to spot it.
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Re: Hay

Postby FiveOaksFarmGA » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:49 pm

TexasBred wrote:
FiveOaksFarmGA wrote:How you "pull" that sample can alter the outcome of the test. Selling hay to some people is a pain. There are more buyers than sellers. You wouldn't pull one of mine. I'd show you the test (taken with a hay core sampler the proper way), your decision after that. Would you let someone come on your farm and do that? I think not. Seems rather insulting to me, after I've spent the time and money to prove the quality, after spending the time and money to get the quality.

Hay sampling is not a highly sophisticated process. Just make sure you get a "representative" sample of the hay in question and submit it to a reputable lab. I'd pull one on yours or never buy hay from you. Seen too many hay jockies use one test result for every bale or roll of hay they have for sale. If it offends you or you consider it an insult then you probably have something you're not wanting me to know about the hay. As I said previously.....you can tell me how good it is all day long but in the end you must show me it's just as good as you say it is and the only honest way to do this is have the hay tested. What say I let you do the sampling and mailing?? I'll pay you what it's worth !!!!


Mine is tested, for my customer's comfort, not mine. I'm just saying no one is going to come on the farm and demand this or that with our process. Too many buyers to put up with that. Hay buyers are a weird bunch sometimes (including myself at times). It's borderline "horsey people" behavior and one of the prime reasons a lot of people I know got out of square bales, and a primary reason why I refuse to square bale. More $ in square bales, but the headaches are astronomical, and not worth it. I make hay for me, and sell what I don't plan to use. I wouldn't feed crap hay to my animals, and I wouldn't expect you to either.
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Re: Hay

Postby TexasBred » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:51 am

Then you would have zero problem with me pulling my own sample and sending it to the lab of my choice.....then we can discuss what it's worth.
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Re: Hay

Postby FiveOaksFarmGA » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:31 pm

I had a surplus of 4 bales this year, because the grass grew about 2 weeks earlier than I had expected green up. Most is sold before it's even cut.
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Re: Hay

Postby Dave » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:44 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Dave wrote:I sold my hay equipment in 1998. Since then I have bought better hay then I could make for less money every year but one. I like not spending my summer doing hay. Instead I can do something important like go fishing.


Sounds good. I hope your suppliers deliver.

Had a neighbor who worked in town, ran cows, and bought all his hay. Ended up selling the cows because he spent fall weekends hauling hay rather than bow hunting. :nod:


There is thousands of acres of irrigated hay in Washington. Truck loads going up the freeway a couple miles from me every day. A phone call or two and I can have more hay than I would ever need delivered to my door. This year alfalfa was $125 a ton delivered, bent grass straw was $80 a ton. About 28-29 ton per load.

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Re: Hay

Postby Craig Miller » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:25 am

I thought we needed to bale to have cows. Got a cheap baler and rake. I can spend a solid week cutting, raking, baling. At the end of the year I'm able to write off fuel costs only on my taxes. I can buy the same amount of hay. Haul it in a couple days time. Then write off fuel costs and hay cost on taxes. My time is worth something. Seems like I'd be better off to invest in a bigger barn. Buy hay year round when I can find good hay at good prices and stack it away in the barn. You could also build up a little stock pile for droughts. Does anybody do it that way?

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Re: Hay

Postby jkwilson » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:48 am

Craig Miller wrote:I thought we needed to bale to have cows. Got a cheap baler and rake. I can spend a solid week cutting, raking, baling. At the end of the year I'm able to write off fuel costs only on my taxes. I can buy the same amount of hay. Haul it in a couple days time. Then write off fuel costs and hay cost on taxes. My time is worth something. Seems like I'd be better off to invest in a bigger barn. Buy hay year round when I can find good hay at good prices and stack it away in the barn. You could also build up a little stock pile for droughts. Does anybody do it that way?


Yep. And never worry about the weather. Rain during hay season just makes my grass grow faster.

Seems like the market doesn't include the risk of bad weather or bad prices for hay producers. I worry too much and I've laid awake half the night when I had hay down trying to figure out what time the breeze and sun would get the dew dried and if I had time to get it all raked and baled before rain rolled in later in the day.

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Re: Hay

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:49 am

Craig Miller wrote:My time is worth something. Seems like I'd be better off to invest in a bigger barn. Buy hay year round when I can find good hay at good prices and stack it away in the barn. You could also build up a little stock pile for droughts. Does anybody do it that way?


Majority think meadow grass hay is fine for cows and hay barns just attract tax assessors. Often true, but these same folks have to buy $100 per bale hay in a drought.
Tarping hay is often the cheapest approach, with shed storage coming in second. Wrapping hay is a growing trend here, but the wrap is only designed to last months.
I like alfalfa/grass or clover/grass hay for heifers and lactating cows. I have been stockpiling about 50% of my annual usage. How much stockpile do you think is just right?
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Re: Hay

Postby Craig Miller » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:34 pm

I don't have a good answer to that. I was hoping you'd tell me. 50% sounds reasonable. If you had that and we're always looking to replace what you fed through winter seems like it would be alright. If heard of some people keeping two years worth back.

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Re: Hay

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:48 pm

Craig Miller wrote:If heard of some people keeping two years worth back.


I think the general answer is we all should stockpile more hay. But for fun with math:

if you borrowed at 4% to purchase hay, and then held this hay till dry weather doubled the price, then how much would profit would you have after taxes? :?
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Re: Hay

Postby RanchMan90 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:18 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Craig Miller wrote:If heard of some people keeping two years worth back.


I think the general answer is we all should stockpile more hay. But for fun with math:

if you borrowed at 4% to purchase hay, and then held this hay till dry weather doubled the price, then how much would profit would you have after taxes? :?

4% interest on a 4 yr note for $40 would be $6.40, taxes on $33.60 profit would be $6.72. Net profit would be $22.88 for an ROI of over 50% with my variables. Great investment
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