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Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:34 pm
by boondocks
Well, the little girl born in the bad weather Thursday is scouring. Tried to call vet but they are already closed for the weekend. I can get ProBios gel at Tractor Supply. Think that will help? I have a thermometer but not sure where that would get me unless I can get vet out on an emergency visit. She is walking around some but def stressed. Sides look a bit thin. Try to get ProBios in? Any electrolytes?

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:58 pm
by Katpau
Doesn't the Vet have an emergency number? I'd try a Vet in another town, you don't need anyone to come out, just some advice.

Sometimes they get diarhea from overeating and that should clear up on its own, but if she seems empty, I would get some electrolytes in her. They sell a mix at most Farm stores. I just treated a heifer who was about three weeks old. The product I used was called ReSorb and it seemed to do the trick. You mix together two packets with warm water. The package said to give two feedings of Resorb then combine it 50% with replacer. She got the runs back and my Vet said “Do not mix the two!”. The Resorb prevents the milk from clotting up in the stomach and will initiate diarrhea again. He said make sure there is enough time between the electolytes and milk. I gave her milk and some ProBios and she was good by the next AM.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:44 pm
by Cucumber35
Electrolytes. TSC should have that too.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:29 pm
by TCRanch
ReSorb works well for me plus I give a Sustain III calf bolus, 1 per 50 lbs & good for 3 days. TSC or whatever farm store should have some type of Sulfamethazine but some are every 12 hours.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:46 pm
by Bright Raven
I treat scours - rarely see it here unless it is a mild case of E. coli - with Sustain III and always keep resorb on hand.

I do use the pro-bios. Always good to rebalance the intestinal microbes after disrupting it with scour treatment.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm
by farmerjan
There are some electrolyte mixes that also will "gel" and slow the passage through the gut so that they aren't squirting it out as fast as you put it in. I will use an "immodium" (for people) before I go to antibiotics , but your calf was definitely stressed by the weather so that is probably a better route. I also use probiotic gel for anything that is stressed to get the gut tract repopulated with good bacteria. Wait for at least 12 hours after the antibiotic or it will be basically wasted.

Old tyme recipe: in a qt bottle, use 1 well beat egg and 1 tbsp ALUM powder with the milk or milk replacer. Also, I will make the milk replacer just a little bit thicker than the usual mix. Next feeding do as regular. If you are leaving the calf on the cow, then it can be mixed in the electrolyte solution. Egg is protein, the egg white is a thickener with the alum powder in it. Great when you are too far from town, the roads are bad, or you just want to get something in it quick. Works good on scoury dairy calves.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:39 pm
by boondocks
Thanks all. Tried to get some electrolytes in her early this am but think she aspirated some. :( We have been doctoring her all day and got the vet out, who gave her Baytril and Banamine (and we will continue those). Got her in barn with mama but she's not eating much and has had diarrhea. We left for an hour and came back and there was some (red, slightly mucus-y) blood on the barn floor so we are concerned calf has one of the GI bugs that leads to GI bleeding (I know several can). Other poss is that the blood is from mama still cleaning but don't think that's likely as she birthed Thursday afternoon, and it doesn't have other tissue in it? At this point I expect we will lose the calf and are just hoping it doesn't spread, esp to the calf that is a week older.
I knew this day was coming--we have been so lucky with calves so far. We have had about 30 born here since we started (about 5 years ago) and this is the first calf we've even had sick. They have been hardy and we have been lucky.
Assuming calf doesn't pull through I guess we will sell mama. Not her fault, I just can't see carrying her for a year.
Very bummed. (I know ya'll have been there!).
I just keep thinking that our being so lucky (so far) has conversely meant we don't have a lot of experience with sick calves

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:08 pm
by Nite Hawk
There is often a difference between types of scours, one is the calf simply made a pig of themselves and drank too much milk, and often cutting them back a bit on how much milk they get helps, and often those scours will resolve themselves by itself. The other type of scours when you walk in a barn you can smell this sour yucky smell, and you start looking to see who is sick, cause you know someone is sick somewhere. Maybe I am a suck, but I treat both kinds vigorously. We used to get scour calf boluses, can’t remember what the name of them was. One kind had both anti diarrhea and anti bacterial, and if I remember right it had anti coccidiosus stuff in it too.. Would hit them hard with the boluses , and I would give a good shot of trivertrin on top of it too, as it can happen when an animal has a raw gut, bacteria can leave the intestines and go systemic and kill them that way.There may be something out there now that is better than trivetrin, but I found it worked well.
If I figured they had the “runs” too long, i would either try Pepto-Bismol or I would mix up some corn starch and water. If I didn’t have any animal probiotics, I would find some human probiotics and open the capsules and mix it in with the cornstarch. Cornstarch slows the bowel waaayy down. Electrolyte,s-- homemade or store bought are important so the heart beat doesn’t crash on you. Laugh if you will, but living ways out in the bush and not having access to a vet at the drop of the hat, that is what we would do, and it usually worked.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:08 am
by boondocks
Nite Hawk wrote:[...] Electrolyte,s-- homemade or store bought are important so the heart beat doesn’t crash on you. Laugh if you will, but living ways out in the bush and not having access to a vet at the drop of the hat, that is what we would do, and it usually worked.


Thanks, Nite Hawk, some good home remedies and advice there.

We went down at 6:30 am to check them, expecting calf to very well be dead. We were surprised to see her standing and even trying to nurse a bit. Got another shot of Banamine in her per vet (mama did NOT like us messin with her calf). This eve we had nice weather and were able to set up a little polywire "run" for them and let them out of their barn stall while we cleaned it out. Calf even ran a little, then ran out of steam. Got them back in barn although mama is NOT happy being in there. (I would love for all the laypeople that think we are mean for "making" our cows stay outside to see how a Northern-bred Angus reacts to being told she has to be in the barn!). We have another day's dose of Baytril tomorrow then will play it by ear. She is def still weak and thin, and it's now pouring rain and supposed to be cold rain and some snow for most of the next several days. I don't think mama will safely stay in barn much longer so we may have to turn them back out, despite the lousy weather. We will see....

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:23 am
by Nite Hawk
glad to hear she is climbing...

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 am
by FiveOaksFarmGA
Glad she is responding. I treat scours with electrolytes (4.5lb bag from TSC). Works as well as resorb at considerably less price. I use 10 of the probiotics twice a day, 1/2 of normal milk replacer, and electrolytes a few hours later. First thing in morning I give 15cc of spectoguard (made for pigs) from a needleless syringe, and again be before i go to bed. Call vet if condition worsens or calf stops taking the bottle.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:45 am
by Nesikep
Good to hear she's doing better...
I've used trivetrin several times for scours.. works pretty well.. I don't think probiotics are useful DURING scours, but after when they're on the mend it might help.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:42 pm
by boondocks
Thanks for the good advice and good thoughts,all. We let them out of the barn into their run again this evening to clean their area. Calf is bit thin but walking well. She nurses but only for short spurts but had solid stool today and lots of clear urine. Talked to vet and I'm going to get her a shot of Vit E and selenium tomorrow. Weather is narsty the next few days and our winter pasture is the worst it's ever been, after 38" of snow 3 weeks ago then torrential rains last week and this week. So we will keep her in the barn a few more days if mama doesn't go too stir crazy. She is getting pretty snorty

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:36 pm
by FiveOaksFarmGA
The red or rusty colored stool would indicate a salmonilla infection. Usually calf scours is caused by E Coli, but either are easily acquired by humans. Just be sure to decon yourself (hands/boots/clothes) after working with them, and be careful not to touch your eyes, mouth, nose prior to decon.

I don't envy you with those winters. Used to live up in Northeast Ohio for a bit for work. Glad to be back in GA.

Re: Help--ProBios for Newborn scours?

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:27 am
by boondocks
FiveOaksFarmGA wrote:The red or rusty colored stool would indicate a salmonilla infection. Usually calf scours is caused by E Coli, but either are easily acquired by humans. Just be sure to decon yourself (hands/boots/clothes) after working with them, and be careful not to touch your eyes, mouth, nose prior to decon.

I don't envy you with those winters. Used to live up in Northeast Ohio for a bit for work. Glad to be back in GA.

Yes winters are harsh. I think early spring is harder on the animals in some ways though. Snow bothers our Angus much less than freezing rain. Of which we've had a LOT.
It wasn't rusty-colored stool but blood. I suspect now that it was perhaps the cow still cleaning the afterbirth.

We let baby and mama back out with the herd on Saturday. Mama was really NOT liking the barn thing.
Today was our first beautiful day. Fields still very wet but calf seems to be keeping up with mama. Still a bit thin-ish but nursing, lots of energy. Will hope she does not relapse, as I have read from many others' stories that they sometimes do.