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Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:48 pm
by Dave
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:"The Holstein in them would show up. I remember one of that second generation who was pure black and bred to an Angus bull had a calf that was marked like and looked like a pure bred Holstein. Took a beating when that calf sold."
Guarantee that calf was NOT sired by an Angus. Maybe an Angus cross (Holstein or Simmental). You cannot get body white unless BOTH parents carry the spotting gene. NO registered ANGUS carries the spotting gene - unless theirs something else in his wood pile!!!


May have been a simm/angus bull. I have run a few of them over the years. Like said it was a few years back. But I sure remember that black and white calf.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:00 pm
by Cada22
kd4au wrote:
Cada22 wrote:What kind of longevity did you see out of the Angus/Holstein cross?

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.


Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:07 am
by kd4au
Cada22 wrote:
kd4au wrote:
Cada22 wrote:What kind of longevity did you see out of the Angus/Holstein cross?

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.


Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:19 pm
by Cada22
kd4au wrote:
Cada22 wrote:
kd4au wrote:Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.


Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.


We are in North Alabama. We can handle a little ear locally. Brangus probably wouldn't be too much ear.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:22 am
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
OK - tell me if I am wrong. But, I thought "ear cattle" were discriminated by the feedlots (lower price) because they don't do as well as non-eared cattle on the feedlots. Living in upstate NY, I do not have any experience with them, so I may have misconception. This person wants to raise the calf for harvesting his own meat. Is it advisable to recommend " ear" cattle?

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:39 am
by kd4au
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:OK - tell me if I am wrong. But, I thought "ear cattle" were discriminated by the feedlots (lower price) because they don't do as well as non-eared cattle on the feedlots. Living in upstate NY, I do not have any experience with them, so I may have misconception. This person wants to raise the calf for harvesting his own meat. Is it advisable to recommend " ear" cattle?

IMO the Holstein will hurt the meat more than the Brangus. But your right to much ear and the feedlot guy's won't like them, but a little ear say 1/4 or so doesn't hurt them much.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:41 am
by kd4au
Cada22 wrote:
kd4au wrote:
Cada22 wrote:
Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.


We are in North Alabama. We can handle a little ear locally. Brangus probably wouldn't be too much ear.

Me too. But if that's the case I would just go back with straight Angus. I have gone away from the ear more and more the last few years.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:40 pm
by Cada22
kd4au wrote:
Cada22 wrote:
kd4au wrote:What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.


We are in North Alabama. We can handle a little ear locally. Brangus probably wouldn't be too much ear.

Me too. But if that's the case I would just go back with straight Angus. I have gone away from the ear more and more the last few years.


If I can get a donor cow bought right, they may be recips next year with an Angus clean up bull over them

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:35 am
by Son of Butch
DNA testing has shown that offspring will favor one grandparent over the other 3.
ie in a 4 way cross, Angus, Hereford, Charolais, Holstein the resulting gene mix can be something like a random mix of
35% 15% 28% 22% and not the previously thought 25, 25, 25, 25%
Each grandparent also has 4 grandparents, so It all results in making genetic predictions even more perplexing.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:34 am
by farmerjan
I agree with Son of Butch as I have seen many times that calves will tend to favor on ancestor more than others. Have found that the jersey crosses will favor the jersey genetics for many generations later.....and i am sure some breeds and even sires within the breeds will be prepotent for traits. The dairy breed traits tend to be more predominant in many crosses, sometimes to the detriment of the saleability of the calves.I have some jersey holstein crosses that have angus calves that are all finer boned, slimmer legs etc with the jersey showing more. Have a couple hol ang that show more of the angus after the second generation. The buyers here frown on the dairy crossed calves unless you go to the sales that are for dairy and dairy crossed feeders; those guys are looking for them specifically. But the jersey influences still take a hit.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:53 pm
by redcowsrule33
Cada22 wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:
cow pollinater wrote:If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.

1/2 Holstein will provide plenty of frame and milk, so something short, wide and low, low milk.


What breed would I be looking at to accomplish that?


Ok, I'll bite.

I grew up with many, many cows of this cross, and while some held up and lived well into their teens, many washed out for udder quality as they aged. Just too much milk. However, they raised some awesome calves and gave us daughters that were keepers as well as steers that sold very well when crossed on Simmental.

One thing that has not been mentioned is you need to stay with homozygous polled bulls on these guys or you will have to knock off some horns. Not my favorite job.

If I was going to choose a bull to use on a group of Holstein/Angus is would look hard at Redhill Muskoka 71C.
http://alliedgeneticresources.com/semen_detail.php?bullid=222

Look at the catalog (page 40) for more detailed info https://www.redhillfarms.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/RHF-2016-Sale-Catalog-web.pdf

While unproven himself I am very familiar with his bloodlines top and bottom and would not hesitate to use him on heifers. With a 4.5 frame and that amount of meat you should get some nice calves and the Holstein will make up for the lack of milk.

I have not used him and have no skin in his game but this is something along the lines you should look for IMHO.

Re: Looking for a direction

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:44 pm
by Stocker Steve
Son of Butch wrote:DNA testing has shown that offspring will favor one grandparent over the other 3.
ie in a 4 way cross, Angus, Hereford, Charolais, Holstein the resulting gene mix can be something like a random mix of
35% 15% 28% 22% and not the previously thought 25, 25, 25, 25%
Each grandparent also has 4 grandparents, so It all results in making genetic predictions even more perplexing.


Been there.
So are there more dominate beef breeds in a 3 or 4 way crosses?