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flaboy
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Postby flaboy » Wed May 11, 2005 10:30 am

flaboy wrote:
certherfbeef wrote:
flaboy wrote:
jerry27150 wrote:if you want black calves, angus or brangus would be fine. lots of breeds have black bulls now. many of those would make good crosses also. depends on what your cows look like & what traits you need


OK, lets have a little fun. This is one of my 1 month old bulls. What is the genectics here?


Herf cow black bull. Black cow herf bull.
I have a stout little heifer marked up just like that. Herf cow, blue roan shorty bull.
Cows in your avatar are black. Maybe just a pair of baldies?


Dang avatars anyway. Well I will give it another hour or so to see if there are anymore guesses before revealing the true identity.


Ok, so this was too easy. I figured someone would say Holstein in the wood pile.

So purebred Hereford cow, registered Red Angus bull. Now the kicker here is that the registered Red Angus bull is black. Here is another of his offspring.
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Postby stocky » Wed May 11, 2005 10:46 am

there has to be hereford in the ancestry. there also has to be black in the ancestry---it can be any mix of the two but probably most likely is the hereford bull and black angus cow or the hereford bull and the holstein cow----but hereford and black are both in there somewhere, there are probably 20 combinations that can get you that color calf
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Postby bigbull338 » Wed May 11, 2005 10:58 am

forget the holstein in the woodpile that calf looks like he got some jersy in him scott
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Postby preston39 » Wed May 11, 2005 11:10 am

Flaboy...... "Now the kicker here is that the registered Red Angus bull is black. Here is another of his offspring".....

..."The registered Red Angus bull is black".....Help me with that one?
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dun
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Postby dun » Wed May 11, 2005 11:30 am

Rustler9 wrote:Looks like a Holstein/Hereford baldy.


That would be my guess

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Postby dun » Wed May 11, 2005 11:33 am

preston39 wrote:Flaboy...... "Now the kicker here is that the registered Red Angus bull is black. Here is another of his offspring".....

..."The registered Red Angus bull is black".....Help me with that one?


Black is one of the diqualifying things for registering angus as other then commercial, or maybe 1B but I would think by that point the black would be long gone.
Unless there is a mutation, 2 reds cannot make a black. Genetics 101

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Postby preston39 » Wed May 11, 2005 11:49 am

dun,
I would agree...thought he may have mixed the references. I am sure he will confirm it.
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Postby flaboy » Wed May 11, 2005 1:40 pm

dun wrote:
preston39 wrote:Flaboy...... "Now the kicker here is that the registered Red Angus bull is black. Here is another of his offspring".....

..."The registered Red Angus bull is black".....Help me with that one?


Black is one of the diqualifying things for registering angus as other then commercial, or maybe 1B but I would think by that point the black would be long gone.
Unless there is a mutation, 2 reds cannot make a black. Genetics 101

dun


Ok, you got me. He was issued 100% AR, Catagory II. Dun, his A.I. sire was red and the dam was red. What is that telling us?
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bigbull338
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Postby bigbull338 » Wed May 11, 2005 1:45 pm

theres alot of reg red angus they still are red angus that turn out black abd you keep breeding them to the red bulls an sooner or later theyll throw a red calf they still carry the red genes scott
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Postby Beefy » Wed May 11, 2005 10:14 pm

on limousin cows i'd go with a brangus or angus bull. then go back with an angus again so the calves will be 3/4 angus and 1/4 zine.

beefmaster would also cross well with limousin.

I would NOT recommend charolais or simmental of any other continental breed for a multitude of reasons.
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Postby dun » Wed May 11, 2005 11:30 pm

flaboy wrote: Dun, his A.I. sire was red and the dam was red. What is that telling us?


It tells me one of two things, either there was a color gene mutation or someone can;t read a semen straw. There is a third possibility, the neighbors have a black bull.
I would be real skeptical and would want to see a DNA result before I would accept him at face value.

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Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu May 12, 2005 6:12 am

dun wrote:
flaboy wrote: Dun, his A.I. sire was red and the dam was red. What is that telling us?


It tells me one of two things, either there was a color gene mutation or someone can;t read a semen straw. There is a third possibility, the neighbors have a black bull.
I would be real skeptical and would want to see a DNA result before I would accept him at face value.

dun

CORRECT - other than a genetic freek - has to have a direct black hided parent. Red cannot produce black. Red cattle DO NOT CARRY a black gene. A black bull bred to a black cow can produce a red offspring. That offspring DOES NOT carry a black gene. (Both parents were heterozygous black - each carrying a red gene and each passed it on to offspring to produce the red calf)
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Postby certherfbeef » Thu May 12, 2005 8:49 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:CORRECT - other than a genetic freek - has to have a direct black hided parent. Red cannot produce black. Red cattle DO NOT CARRY a black gene. A black bull bred to a black cow can produce a red offspring. That offspring DOES NOT carry a black gene. (Both parents were heterozygous black - each carrying a red gene and each passed it on to offspring to produce the red calf)


I'm not a genetics genious. So what you are saying is that...my black meyer 734 daughter when bred to a hetero black bull can and will throw a red calf? Both parents came from the hereford herd.
But unless I use a homo black bull on that black meyer daughter I'll never get a black calf?
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Postby dun » Thu May 12, 2005 9:14 am

If one parent is hetero black and the other homo the odds of a red calf are zero, if both are hetero black I'm not sure of the percentage but you may get a red calf. To get red the calf has to get a red gene from both parents, for black it only needs one black gene. When you throw in dilutors and spotting genes things get interesting but the basics are black is dominant.
It works the same as polled and horned (excluding the African horn gene) that polled is dominant.
That's why horned and red animals are homozygous for those traits.
I'm sure TXag can splaine it a whole lot better then I can.

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Postby flaboy » Thu May 12, 2005 9:22 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
dun wrote:
flaboy wrote: Dun, his A.I. sire was red and the dam was red. What is that telling us?


It tells me one of two things, either there was a color gene mutation or someone can;t read a semen straw. There is a third possibility, the neighbors have a black bull.
I would be real skeptical and would want to see a DNA result before I would accept him at face value.

dun

CORRECT - other than a genetic freek - has to have a direct black hided parent. Red cannot produce black. Red cattle DO NOT CARRY a black gene. A black bull bred to a black cow can produce a red offspring. That offspring DOES NOT carry a black gene. (Both parents were heterozygous black - each carrying a red gene and each passed it on to offspring to produce the red calf)


Well I flunked genetics 101 so this is how I understand what you guys are saying. My Black RA bull must have had a black parent? I will look up the spec's on the two and post them. I don't have the info with me right now.

Does this also explain why my Black RA Bull when bred to a Black Brangus sometimes throws a red calf? Yep, got one. See the red bull calf I posted above. My Black bull and one of my black Brangus cows.
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