Genetics and Herd Expansion

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Brookhill Angus
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:16 pm

To the grass fed producers:

I would like to clear the air and clarify some of my comments

While many are quick to say that I denigrate their herd or that I am a despicable human being, let's quickly focus on all the nasty comments on my cattle. Jeanne has said repeatedly that they are morbidly obese, this comment can cause damage, and lead someone who has not seen my herd in person to form a negative opinion. Both BR and TT recently saw the herd in person, and they went away with the knowledge and proof that they are just big, deep bodied cows, not lard tubs as Ebenezer has described them.

While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.

The producers that I have seen in my area that are going the "grass fed" route are buying up 3 weights at the yards, putting them out in a field with little to no vaccine, mineral, or much of anything other than grass, weeds, and water, and hoping they hit 5 weights at some point at which they try to resell them for a small profit. The herds are typically every color in the rainbow, hence my calico comment and Heinz 57. Even the folks at the feed mill call their own herds "Rainbow cows". There is absolutely no forethought put into what they are doing, or the carcass quality, or anything, other than keeping them alive long enough and putting weight on them in order to get them to the next destination. Grass fed for many producers means one thing, and lets call it for what it really is, ZERO inputs! When you don't have to do anything but put cattle on grass and collect them a few months later, that is highly appealing to many people in the business, but that process does not exactly produce the steak I posted above.

This method of finishing out steers is in stark contrast to how professional feedlots in Nebraska and other areas in the midwest approach the process. There is a cattleman in my area that sells beef from a refrigerated truck, he produces the beef himself, and I'm sure a lot of hard work goes into everything. BUT, a restaurant like Peter Luger's in NY or Morton's, Smith and Wollensky, etc would be out of business if they put one of his steaks in front of a discerning customer. That's a fact.

If you are like some of the locals around me, then yes, I might have offended you, but if not, there isn't anything to get upset about, do your thing, do it well, and prosper. Not everyone wants a grass-fed steak, not everyone wants a grain finished steak. We can agree upon that. The grass-fed market is not going away, it's a real thing from a demand standpoint, but if I were a grass fed producer, I would be watching Impossible Meats VERY CLOSELY, because the "health conscious crowd is highly fickle and could switch out of "healthy meat" to "alternative meat" in a heartbeat. Not so much with the grain fed crowd that would never touch alternative meat even if they were starving.


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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:24 pm

Edit: Obviously, we were both typing at the same time. I'm sure I have said a few of the cows you posted were obese, but only the ones that had basketball briskets and blobs of fat on both sides of their tail heads - I call a spade a spade. I only comment on what I see. I have also admired many that you have posted. We all get it, TT & Ron have been to see your herd - you have told us that multiple times. I do not deny that you probably have a beautiful herd. End Edit.

I didn't bother to watch the video - but, my Simmental qualify and get sold as Certified Angus Beef. What makes you think Angus is the ONLY thing on this earth that can make a Tomahawk Ribeye Steak????
Like I and others are trying to say - you go over board on your promotion. Angus is not everything. And this forum is not here to have someone try to shove it down our throats all the time. As mentioned, we can appreciate your enthusiasm for your cattle - I have just the same for my cattle and probably go over board some times - my bad.
Just slow your roll. You have a lot to offer this forum. Try to present it in a manner people are willing to read.
Last edited by Jeanne - Simme Valley on Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:46 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:24 pm
I didn't bother to watch the video - but, my Simmental qualify and get sold as Certified Angus Beef. What makes you think Angus is the ONLY thing on this earth that can make a Tomahawk Ribeye Steak????
Like I and others are trying to say - you go over board on your promotion. Angus is not everything. And this forum is not here to have someone try to shove it down our throats all the time. As mentioned, we can appreciate your enthusiasm for your cattle - I have just the same for my cattle and probably go over board some times - my bad.
Just slow your roll. You have a lot to offer this forum. Try to present it in a manner people are willing to read.
I don't think Angus is the ONLY form of beef cattle, Hereford is amazing beef as well. Should we discuss Herefords? I'm amazed at how horned Herefords look, and there are videos on Youtube that make my mouth drop when I see those bulls. I also REALLY LIKE Shorthorns. I'm a big fan of them as well.

Please answer this for me Jeanne. Why have Simmental producers worked so hard to improve carcass, whereby it comes naturally for Angus and Hereford, even Shorthorn? Simmentals are fine cattle. In fact, your cattle and Ron's are beautiful animals. Now with that out of the way, weren't Simmentals originally, from my "limited" knowledge of them, draft animals, along with Gelbveih and Limousin. From what I can tell many producers cross those animals with Angus in order to get better carcass traits, or am I wrong? Why spend decades trying to get an animal to taste like another animal? An animal that tastes that way naturally, with no work involved?

In fact, don't many producers create a Sim Ang product? Why introduce the Angus if it's not needed? Could it be meat quality, calving ease, what? I assume that people cross Simmental and Angus in order to get the muscling of Simmental and the carcass traits of Angus. Is that assumption incorrect?

Based on what you have said before, if I had a Sim Ang herd, I would be working hard to breed the Angus OUT OF THEM, not into them.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Backbone Ranch » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:11 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:16 pm

While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.
Brookhill,

These were some bone-in ribeye steaks from a 2 year old Murray Grey x Guernsey cross steer that we raised. He never tasted grain in his life.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:14 pm

Backbone Ranch wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:16 pm

While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.
Brookhill,

These were some bone-in ribeye steaks from a 2 year old Murray Grey x Guernsey cross steer that we raised. He never tasted grain in his life.

Image
VERY NICE! Now if you could get your method introduced to Laura's or Whole Foods the future looks bright. By the way, my comments were not directed at operations that are putting forth a product like yours, which looks TOP NOTCH!
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Hippie Rancher » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:28 pm

meh, never mind.
Last edited by Hippie Rancher on Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:43 pm

James - Thank you, I do take great pride in my herd with almost 50 years of breeding.
Actually, Hereford has been discounted in the feeder calf sales for years because they don't have as high a quality carcass as desired - they put on too much fat. The Horned Hereford now blended into the Polled breed has made the breed outstanding again.
Speaking of too much fat, that is the main reason SimAngus are so desired. They compliment each other tremendously. Simmental is the highest marbling continental breed and Angus is the highest marbling British breed. The Simmentals add the lean needed in the Angus to lower the Yield Grade, and also increase the muscling (lacking in the "high carcass" lines).
The Simmental breed has NOT "worked so hard to improve carcass" because the breed came here already being the best marbling "new breed". Some of the original Simmentals were used for draft, but mainly dairy & beef.
Want to talk about "working on carcass" - the Angus breed has gone over the top trying to increase marbling & chasing the carcass numbers, forgetting to LOOK at their own cattle. Which, you do a great job of trying to produce quality PHENOTYPE, and don't chase the numbers. Angus has always been the "carcass breed" and the "CE breed". Why chase the numbers now? (the breed, not you.)
I think we generally agree about most things, just have different ways of saying it.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:03 pm

Hippie Rancher wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:28 pm
meh, never mind.
My kids say that all the time. What’s does ”meh” mean?
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Son of Butch » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:23 pm

meh = just pass the meth and don't bother me :)
No worries TT, they probably learned it from their mother.
Last edited by Son of Butch on Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:27 pm

Son of Butch wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:23 pm
meh = just pass the meth and don't bother me :)
That makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Son of Butch » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:36 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:27 pm
Son of Butch wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:23 pm
meh = just pass the meth and don't bother me :)
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Well that's the next generation for ya.
meh is an expression for a lack of interest (ie a way of saying, I'm not impressed)
p'owned/pwned = I own you (started by online poker players hitting p when spelling owned)
sick = anything considered ultra cool. (ie: Butch is so sick.) :)

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:09 pm

Is “gnarly” still used?
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Son of Butch » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:18 pm

ope/Oh-p = Minnesota slang = a sound or a non word of politeness, meaning:
Excuse me, please forgive me, no harm intended kind sir/madam.

examples: If you step on someones foot, Minnesotans say ope...
Cutting through a line: oh-p just need to pass.
Bumping into another... ope.
Many opes are directed internally.

p.s.
gnarly would only still be used by old codgers such as ourselves.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Hippie Rancher » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:51 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:03 pm
Hippie Rancher wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:28 pm
meh, never mind.
My kids say that all the time. What’s does ”meh” mean?
In this particular case it was an expression of losing interest in the conversation. It has been around for at least 15 or 20 years, not that new. :lol2:

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... =tus&q=meh

Ha! according to this - http://mentalfloss.com/article/58647/10 ... ade-famous - it came from the Simpsons but may be older.
8. MEH
An investigation into the etymology of "meh" discovered that it may have Yiddish origins, but the first use of "meh" as a word expressing indifference came from a July 9, 1992 Usenet post complaining about Melrose Place. John Swartzwelder was credited with first introducing "meh" into a Simpsons script, and when reached for comment, he claimed he heard it from an advertising writer who said it was the funniest word in the world—in the early '70s. No matter its origins, The Simpsons was responsible for making it one of the 20 words that defined the 2000s, according to BBC News online.
Last edited by Hippie Rancher on Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:53 pm

Well meh then.
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