Genetics and Herd Expansion

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Buck Randall » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:10 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:53 pm
Well meh then.
You should try being more woke. It's lit.



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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:18 pm

Buck Randall wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:10 pm
TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:53 pm
Well meh then.
You should try being more woke. It's lit.
Gnarly dude.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Deepsouth » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:03 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:16 pm
To the grass fed producers:

I would like to clear the air and clarify some of my comments



The producers that I have seen in my area that are going the "grass fed" route are buying up 3 weights at the yards, putting them out in a field with little to no vaccine, mineral, or much of anything other than grass, weeds, and water, and hoping they hit 5 weights at some point at which they try to resell them for a small profit. The herds are typically every color in the rainbow, hence my calico comment and Heinz 57. Even the folks at the feed mill call their own herds "Rainbow cows". There is absolutely no forethought put into what they are doing, or the carcass quality, or anything, other than keeping them alive long enough and putting weight on them in order to get them to the next destination. Grass fed for many producers means one thing, and lets call it for what it really is, ZERO inputs! When you don't have to do anything but put cattle on grass and collect them a few months later, that is highly appealing to many people in the business, but that process does not exactly produce the steak I posted
This has got to be the absolutely most ignorant paragraph I've ever read on CT.
.
And that's saying a lot. :shock:
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by NEFarmwife » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:08 pm

My neighbors run an organic/grass fed farm and do well. They are also very good stewards of their land. It takes consistency, a lot more work, and a passion. I admire their operation.

They get their premium from it, we get ours from the NHTC side of things. To each their own. I bet they gain more per critter than we do.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by sim.-ang.king » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:02 pm

BH the BTO telling everyone how to feed steers, and has never fed any of his own.
But he's got over-fed cows, and eats at 4 star overpriced steakhouses, so he must know what he is talking about!

Cool story, bruh!
Why should I apologize for becoming a monster?
Did anyone apologize for making me one?

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:12 pm

5 star and worth every penny.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Katpau » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:12 am

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:16 pm
To the grass fed producers:
While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.

The producers that I have seen in my area that are going the "grass fed" route are buying up 3 weights at the yards, putting them out in a field with little to no vaccine, mineral, or much of anything other than grass, weeds, and water, and hoping they hit 5 weights at some point at which they try to resell them for a small profit. The herds are typically every color in the rainbow, hence my calico comment and Heinz 57. Even the folks at the feed mill call their own herds "Rainbow cows". There is absolutely no forethought put into what they are doing, or the carcass quality, or anything, other than keeping them alive long enough and putting weight on them in order to get them to the next destination. Grass fed for many producers means one thing, and lets call it for what it really is, ZERO inputs! When you don't have to do anything but put cattle on grass and collect them a few months later, that is highly appealing to many people in the business, but that process does not exactly produce the steak I posted above.
You are partially correct in the first paragraph I quoted. In my opinion, there are wanna be grass fed producers that think buying any calf and putting them out on any grass will give them a product they can sell at a premium, but most will not have repeat customers and won't be in that business long. Grass fed beef is a skill and it takes the kind of forage that most are not able to produce. You may not believe it, but you can produce a product that compares favorably to grain fed, but they need to be on quality forage every day of their life. The people I know use a lot of Brasiccas, in addition to the grasses. Are you aware that corn is a grass? You can use it in your forage stand and graze it still green. The grass fed producers I know care a great deal about the genetics they choose. They are not rainbow colored, and growth and carcass quality are traits selected for. They do tend to be a little smaller in stature than the cattle you prefer.

Your second paragraph talks about a practice I refer to as "stocker grower". That is NOT what grass fed is. It is very common practice in the West for cattle to be put on grass until they reach a weight where they are ready to be finished. Some will only buy quality calves, but others buy up whatever they can get cheap and when they hit weight, they will sort them into truckloads of similar type cattle for resale. Calves are generally kept on grass until they hit about 800 pounds. They are then finished in a feedlot. You describe calves being pulled at much lighter weights. That will happen when you are out of grass or it is just cheaper to finish in the feedlot, like may be the case in your area. At 500 pounds those calves would not be considered "grass fed" and ready for the consumer. Some of them may go on to be finished somewhere as grass fed, but I bet most end up finished in a feedlot. Corn and other grains are much more expensive in areas where they must be trucked in, so getting a good start on grass will make more money.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:45 pm

Katpau wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:12 am
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:16 pm
To the grass fed producers:
While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.

The producers that I have seen in my area that are going the "grass fed" route are buying up 3 weights at the yards, putting them out in a field with little to no vaccine, mineral, or much of anything other than grass, weeds, and water, and hoping they hit 5 weights at some point at which they try to resell them for a small profit. The herds are typically every color in the rainbow, hence my calico comment and Heinz 57. Even the folks at the feed mill call their own herds "Rainbow cows". There is absolutely no forethought put into what they are doing, or the carcass quality, or anything, other than keeping them alive long enough and putting weight on them in order to get them to the next destination. Grass fed for many producers means one thing, and lets call it for what it really is, ZERO inputs! When you don't have to do anything but put cattle on grass and collect them a few months later, that is highly appealing to many people in the business, but that process does not exactly produce the steak I posted above.
You are partially correct in the first paragraph I quoted. In my opinion, there are wanna be grass fed producers that think buying any calf and putting them out on any grass will give them a product they can sell at a premium, but most will not have repeat customers and won't be in that business long. Grass fed beef is a skill and it takes the kind of forage that most are not able to produce. You may not believe it, but you can produce a product that compares favorably to grain fed, but they need to be on quality forage every day of their life. The people I know use a lot of Brasiccas, in addition to the grasses. Are you aware that corn is a grass? You can use it in your forage stand and graze it still green. The grass fed producers I know care a great deal about the genetics they choose. They are not rainbow colored, and growth and carcass quality are traits selected for. They do tend to be a little smaller in stature than the cattle you prefer.

Your second paragraph talks about a practice I refer to as "stocker grower". That is NOT what grass fed is. It is very common practice in the West for cattle to be put on grass until they reach a weight where they are ready to be finished. Some will only buy quality calves, but others buy up whatever they can get cheap and when they hit weight, they will sort them into truckloads of similar type cattle for resale. Calves are generally kept on grass until they hit about 800 pounds. They are then finished in a feedlot. You describe calves being pulled at much lighter weights. That will happen when you are out of grass or it is just cheaper to finish in the feedlot, like may be the case in your area. At 500 pounds those calves would not be considered "grass fed" and ready for the consumer. Some of them may go on to be finished somewhere as grass fed, but I bet most end up finished in a feedlot. Corn and other grains are much more expensive in areas where they must be trucked in, so getting a good start on grass will make more money.
I appreciate your thorough response, and think you have a good idea of where I was coming from. I respect the process of those doing it the way you described at the beginning of your post.

Again my argument resided with people who do little to nothing with their cattle and want to hop on the grass fed train.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Stickney94 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:06 pm

To the OP -- find a local AI tech, learn how to manage a timed AI protocol or get very good at heat detection (or both). Do some research on bulls available through your AI techs company of choice based on what your goals/markets are. AI is a great way to insert some solid genetics into your herd quickly and under your control.


As to the "grass-fed" sub thread -- I think that the term "grass fed" is pretty indicative of its inherent marketing holes (in my eyes as a cattle producer). The cattle have been fed grass. Yeah! It's also a little ironic that in order to get many cattle fat on "grass" they need to be given a lot of brassicas and legumes. And the additional irony that as mentioned corn/wheat are grasses.

But customers aren't that knowledgeable about how or where their food comes from. Us producers arguing over the semantics of our feeding rations is simply not relevant to the customer.

Grass fed means something to customers. Whether that meaning is understood or completely accurate is not pertinent. Its what they want and if its a satisfying product they will return.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:32 pm

Stickney said: "Grass fed means something to customers. Whether that meaning is understood or completely accurate is not pertinent. Its what they want and if its a satisfying product they will return."
You are exactly right. It is a PERCEIVED health benefit. The only research so far was done by Texas A&M. Which proved grain fed was "healthier" over grass fed.
Organic is another "perceived" health benefit.
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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Katpau » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:30 am

I need to clarify my response to Brookhill's post regarding those "Rainbow cows" out on grass. You can label cattle as "grass fed" as long as the cattle were started on grass, so the cattle Brookhill referred to as being on grass until just 500 pounds could correctly be labeled "grass fed". It does not matter if they receive supplemental grain or even if they are finished on a grain based diet, as long as they were started on grass. I expect most cattle would qualify, including Brookhills cattle most likely.

My response to Brookhill was:
"Your second paragraph talks about a practice I refer to as "stocker grower". That is NOT what grass fed is."
I should have used the term "grass finished" in that post. I assumed that was what Brookhill meant in his post, but my response used his wording rather than the correct term which is "grass finished".
"Grass finished", means those cattle ate nothing but forage for their whole lives, and that was what I meant to say. It is confusing to consumers and even though I should know better, I still messed up.
The cattle that Brookhill discussed in his post may have been marketed as grass fed, but I doubt it. I expect those calves that he described as being resold as 5 weights, probably went on to be finished traditionally and were most likely never marketed as grass fed.

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Re: Genetics and Herd Expansion

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:52 am

Some people wean their calves just on grass so they can market them to a grass finisher.
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