Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

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Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by josh8906 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:55 pm

Hi, There was some Wagyu Angus Cross heifer replacements for sale Ai'd to a registered Angus. I was wondering if anybody had any experience with incorporating these type heifers into their herd. I have a small commercial herd with a registered Angus and was wondering if these would have any benefits breeding back to my Angus bull? Thanks



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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Stickney94 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:30 pm

I'm calving some F1 Wagyu/Angus currently. My judgement is still out at the moment.

We've harvested several F1 Angus crosses and they make very good beef. If you want your cattle to all look like Coleman Charlo, they won't. They will be finer boned with less muscle in the rear end. They finish reasonably well in our program, no statistical difference in days on feed compared to FB angus and the carcasses have weighed relatively the same.

I'd heard rumors that Wagyu weren't the greatest mothers and that has so far played out for me. But my sample size is very small. I will also say the calves will come small/tiny and they are highly stealthy at suckling.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by sstterry » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:03 pm

What is the result if you have an F2 cross, ie Angus, Charolais, and Waygu? Is there any benefit from a heterosis point of view? It is my understanding that if you get to F3 then the heterosis benefit is actually reduced. Full disclosure on this; I am definitely not an expert in this area.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Stickney94 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:32 pm

From data from Australia, F2 Wagyu/Angus crosses are sorta the sweet spot for relatively large carcass WITH much of the associated Wagyu marbling. I'll let you know in roughly 20 months when my first F2 crosses are ready for slaughter (hopefully).

But to the 3 breed question -- https://beef.unl.edu/beefreports/symp-2007-21-xx.shtml
Probably sums that up better than I.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by josh8906 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:58 pm

What about horns? Does your F1 cows have any? Do you think the offspring from breeding the F1 cows back to a Angus bull would have them? If so that would be a killer for me. I don't like dehorning.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Brute 23 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:01 pm

I was looking in to the Wagu but it seems to be extremely inefficient. Although the marbeling is really marketed the dirty secret is it takes like 18 months for that to be achieved. I know wagu is a hot buzz word but I just cant see that as being a viable option long term. Plus, I have heard a lot of people echo my experience that they do not taste the benefits of the Wagu over Angus or what ever else.

If I were to get in that game I think I would buy solid Angus cows and ai out to a wagu bull just in case it doesnt pan out long term.
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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by wbvs58 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:58 am

Whatever the mix with wagyu, you have to have a market for them to benefit. Like finish them yourself to sell the carcases or sell directly to specialty wagyu feeders where you can prove their origin. To send them to the saleyards and expect to get a premium merely on your word of the %age wagyu then you will be disappointed.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by sstterry » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:18 am

wbvs58 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:58 am
Whatever the mix with wagyu, you have to have a market for them to benefit. Like finish them yourself to sell the carcases or sell directly to specialty wagyu feeders where you can prove their origin. To send them to the saleyards and expect to get a premium merely on your word of the %age wagyu then you will be disappointed.

Ken
I agree with Ken, if I ever did this, it would be for personal consumption or to sell privately for freezer beef. No way would they go to the sale pen.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Dave » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:34 am

Neighbor B is fairly big in the Wagyu business. Does the embryo transplant, ships bulls and heifers all over the country. He also has a lot of commercial cows. He bred all his commercial heifers to a Wagyu. About 100 of them. Small easy calving calves. We just branded the calves out of those heifers a couple days ago. His comment was that they might be small and ugly but they will bring the most dollars in the fall. But I am certain he already has a market for them.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Stickney94 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:19 am

josh8906 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:58 pm
What about horns? Does your F1 cows have any? Do you think the offspring from breeding the F1 cows back to a Angus bull would have them? If so that would be a killer for me. I don't like dehorning.
Excellent question. Depends upon the Wagyu sire on the F1s as near as I can tell. The sire we used last year has no yearlings with horns so far. The sire the year before (different sire) threw 75% with horns. The sire before that was roughly 30%.

I'm sure someone with better genetic knowledge/stats could tell you the liklihood of an F1 Wagyu bred to a an Angus bull expressing calves with horns.

But yes, you likely would have some with horns.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Stickney94 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:24 am

Dave wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:34 am
But I am certain he already has a market for them.
As others have mentioned -- you need to have a market for Wagyu. In my case my market is direct to consumer. My risk on the Wagyu crosses is low. Of the original customers wanting to try Wagyu half have moved BACK to FB angus.

Most of my F1 Angus steers would be hard to distinguish from the FB. But I've had probably 25% that are definitely "back pasture" type, haha.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by W.B. » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:34 am

Stickney94 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:24 am
Dave wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:34 am
But I am certain he already has a market for them.
As others have mentioned -- you need to have a market for Wagyu. In my case my market is direct to consumer. My risk on the Wagyu crosses is low. Of the original customers wanting to try Wagyu half have moved BACK to FB angus.

Most of my F1 Angus steers would be hard to distinguish from the FB. But I've had probably 25% that are definitely "back pasture" type, haha.
Why may I ask have they switched back to Angus? I am in expiremental stage of Wagyu breeding. My goal is to raise quarter bloods for freezer beef. So far we have 5 half blood calves on ground. I am not sure the bull I used is necessarily a heifer bull as the the one bull calf we got was well over 90 lbs and heifer barely had him. The calf vigor was good I felt and better than a highly used calving ease Angus that we used by comparison.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Lucky_P » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:14 pm

It's more than just the marbling...it's also fatty acid makeup and tenderness.
Selection pressure for genetic markers for tenderness and the AA genotype of the SCD gene have had a profound effect, as well.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by cbcr » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:55 pm

From what we have heard from breeders with Wagyu Angus crosses, like someone mentioned, the sweet spot is a 25% Wagyu / 75% Angus. They feed out well and they dress out in the 68% plus range with most having a choice to prime carcass. They also do not have very much backfat.

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Re: Wagyu Angus Cross Replacement Heifers

Post by Stickney94 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:51 pm

W.B. wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:34 am
Why may I ask have they switched back to Angus? I am in experimental stage of Wagyu breeding. My goal is to raise quarter bloods for freezer beef. So far we have 5 half blood calves on ground. I am not sure the bull I used is necessarily a heifer bull as the the one bull calf we got was well over 90 lbs and heifer barely had him. The calf vigor was good I felt and better than a highly used calving ease Angus that we used by comparison.
Fair question. We charged a little bit more, so cost was maybe one part. The Wagyu/Angus meat is "fattier" and some customers I think were just put off by that.

But my brother (& customer) probably said it best -- "Your Angus meat is too good."

Now, we also have customers who are Wagyu addicts. They won't go back.

Ironically, the "back pasture" animals definitely have the best tasting Wagyu meat.

Wagyu calves should come easy. I had a heifer have a 95 lb calf last year with no issues. But normally they come in the 50-60 lb range. I breed all my replacement heifers to Wagyu.

My experience thus far would be to breed FB Angus cows/heifers to a quality WagyuAI sire from ORIgen/ABS or other AI company.

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