Got the old bridge re decked

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Aaron
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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by Aaron » Sun May 10, 2020 3:17 am

gcreekrch wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:23 pm
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
For most of the year one 36 inch culvert would handle all the water this creek has. About every 7 to 10 years we get high enough runoff that we would be rebuilding the crossing. This is easier.
I think riprap on the ends and pack the entire void with clay/mud would keep in place. Force the flood water to go around each side of the bridge if it doesn't go through the culvert during flood events. I got tired of seeing my gravel crossings wash out during floods, so I switched to mud and encourage the grass to take root and sod over the entire crossing. Never a problem again.


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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by gcreekrch » Sun May 10, 2020 5:02 am

Aaron wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:17 am
gcreekrch wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:23 pm
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
For most of the year one 36 inch culvert would handle all the water this creek has. About every 7 to 10 years we get high enough runoff that we would be rebuilding the crossing. This is easier.
I think riprap on the ends and pack the entire void with clay/mud would keep in place. Force the flood water to go around each side of the bridge if it doesn't go through the culvert during flood events. I got tired of seeing my gravel crossings wash out during floods, so I switched to mud and encourage the grass to take root and sod over the entire crossing. Never a problem again.
Ok.
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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by BigBear56 » Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am

Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
I am no expert on the subject but my FIL is. He’s installed culvert pipes for many years and he said there is a drastic difference in 1 pipe vs 2 or big culvert vs bridge. I experienced this at my house. Had an 18” culvert pipe in that was constantly being overflowed by the creek. So I put 2 18” culverts in. Got better but didn’t solve problem. My FIL said to put in 1 36” pipe. Didn’t make sense to me. But it worked. I think it has to do with with the disruption on flow when you force it thru 2 pipes vs 1 or a culvert vs bridge. I’m sure somewhere out there are some formulas for this. I know he measures the ditch size to calculate culvert size.

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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by Aaron » Sun May 10, 2020 9:18 am

BigBear56 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
I am no expert on the subject but my FIL is. He’s installed culvert pipes for many years and he said there is a drastic difference in 1 pipe vs 2 or big culvert vs bridge. I experienced this at my house. Had an 18” culvert pipe in that was constantly being overflowed by the creek. So I put 2 18” culverts in. Got better but didn’t solve problem. My FIL said to put in 1 36” pipe. Didn’t make sense to me. But it worked. I think it has to do with with the disruption on flow when you force it thru 2 pipes vs 1 or a culvert vs bridge. I’m sure somewhere out there are some formulas for this. I know he measures the ditch size to calculate culvert size.
Yes, there are hydraulic flow formulas and charts used in engineered drains to determine culvert size.

I just threw out a random size and quantity based on the pictures provided.
cor durum laborem

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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by gcreekrch » Sun May 10, 2020 9:40 am

Aaron wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:18 am
BigBear56 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
I am no expert on the subject but my FIL is. He’s installed culvert pipes for many years and he said there is a drastic difference in 1 pipe vs 2 or big culvert vs bridge. I experienced this at my house. Had an 18” culvert pipe in that was constantly being overflowed by the creek. So I put 2 18” culverts in. Got better but didn’t solve problem. My FIL said to put in 1 36” pipe. Didn’t make sense to me. But it worked. I think it has to do with with the disruption on flow when you force it thru 2 pipes vs 1 or a culvert vs bridge. I’m sure somewhere out there are some formulas for this. I know he measures the ditch size to calculate culvert size.
Yes, there are hydraulic flow formulas and charts used in engineered drains to determine culvert size.

I just threw out a random size and quantity based on the pictures provided.
There was once a 6 ft culvert at a dry crossing on the road coming into the ranch. It washed out twice in 8 years 1983 and 1991. It was replaced with a Bailey bridge the second time and hasn’t been an issue since. The road dept was going to pull the bridge and put a culvert back in a few years ago. They were convinced not to.
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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by kenny thomas » Sun May 10, 2020 9:47 am

BigBear56 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
I am no expert on the subject but my FIL is. He’s installed culvert pipes for many years and he said there is a drastic difference in 1 pipe vs 2 or big culvert vs bridge. I experienced this at my house. Had an 18” culvert pipe in that was constantly being overflowed by the creek. So I put 2 18” culverts in. Got better but didn’t solve problem. My FIL said to put in 1 36” pipe. Didn’t make sense to me. But it worked. I think it has to do with with the disruption on flow when you force it thru 2 pipes vs 1 or a culvert vs bridge. I’m sure somewhere out there are some formulas for this. I know he measures the ditch size to calculate culvert size.
A single 36" will handle almost double the volume of water that 2-18" will plus won't stop up nearly as easily with sticks and whatever else is in the stream.
The total acreage of the drainage has a lot to do with the flow during a flood also.
There are charts that show area, slope, and ground cover to determine culvert size.
In almost every case a bridge is better.
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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by Nesikep » Sun May 10, 2020 10:13 am

BigBear56 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
I am no expert on the subject but my FIL is. He’s installed culvert pipes for many years and he said there is a drastic difference in 1 pipe vs 2 or big culvert vs bridge. I experienced this at my house. Had an 18” culvert pipe in that was constantly being overflowed by the creek. So I put 2 18” culverts in. Got better but didn’t solve problem. My FIL said to put in 1 36” pipe. Didn’t make sense to me. But it worked. I think it has to do with with the disruption on flow when you force it thru 2 pipes vs 1 or a culvert vs bridge. I’m sure somewhere out there are some formulas for this. I know he measures the ditch size to calculate culvert size.
a 36" pipe has 4x the flow of an 18" (surface of a circle quadruples when you double the diameter)
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by Nesikep » Sun May 10, 2020 10:16 am

our creek washed out a 36 one year (1997?).. got some sticks and big rocks in front of it.. they have a 48" in there now, most of the year it has about 3" of water in it
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by Silver » Sun May 10, 2020 10:34 am

The little creek this bridge is on has washed out it's share of 48" culverts. When spring run off hits it's very dramatic for a few days. This bridge is set up so that at high water the creek overflows around the west side of the bridge, just before the water hits the bridge beams. I have dirt and log crossings that I fix up every year, but I can't patch them until the spring run off is done. I need to be able to get machinery and haul cattle across the creek before this time, so whether I like it or not I do need the security of having a reliable bridge to accomplish this.
I will hopefully be hauling more sandstone to another dirt crossing this year. I think if I can get enough rock on it it may withstand a pretty good overflow. Time will tell.

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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by kenny thomas » Sun May 10, 2020 10:43 am

Nesikep wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:13 am
BigBear56 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am
Aaron wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:41 pm
As I have said before, I don't really understand the bridges. Particular in such narrow and shallow channels.

Couple 36" culverts and some riprap and call it good.
I am no expert on the subject but my FIL is. He’s installed culvert pipes for many years and he said there is a drastic difference in 1 pipe vs 2 or big culvert vs bridge. I experienced this at my house. Had an 18” culvert pipe in that was constantly being overflowed by the creek. So I put 2 18” culverts in. Got better but didn’t solve problem. My FIL said to put in 1 36” pipe. Didn’t make sense to me. But it worked. I think it has to do with with the disruption on flow when you force it thru 2 pipes vs 1 or a culvert vs bridge. I’m sure somewhere out there are some formulas for this. I know he measures the ditch size to calculate culvert size.
a 36" pipe has 4x the flow of an 18" (surface of a circle quadruples when you double the diameter)
You are correct. My eyes are still cloudy.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Got the old bridge re decked

Post by BFE » Sat May 16, 2020 6:47 am

Instead of buying bridge plank, we used a couple old 210 tanks cut and flattened to "plank" our only field bridge. Noisiest bridge in the country!
We drove oilfield pipe, wired cattle panels to the pipe, and filled the gap with rip rap to make wing walls. Works great, no forms to work with, cheaper than concrete.

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