Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun May 31, 2020 8:23 am

RockinRB wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:07 pm
Angus x fleckvieh would make a dandy cross
I concur. Fleck bull over Angus cows or the reverse? I’m thinking Angus cows because they would be easier to source.


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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by A.J. » Sun May 31, 2020 9:43 am

RockinRB wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:07 pm
Angus x fleckvieh would make a dandy cross
They would be some great growing calves and good momma cows. One concern I would have here is the extra chrome you might get if selling at the sale barn. I’ve got an old Simangus cow I raised out of a brown and white Simmental. She raises a great calf every year, but if her calves have much chrome on the side or underneath they got docked pretty good. Some years she will have an almost solid black calf, and some years like this year she will throw one with tons of chrome.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by ccr » Sun May 31, 2020 4:13 pm

A.J. wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:43 am
RockinRB wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:07 pm
Angus x fleckvieh would make a dandy cross
They would be some great growing calves and good momma cows. One concern I would have here is the extra chrome you might get if selling at the sale barn. I’ve got an old Simangus cow I raised out of a brown and white Simmental. She raises a great calf every year, but if her calves have much chrome on the side or underneath they got docked pretty good. Some years she will have an almost solid black calf, and some years like this year she will throw one with tons of chrome.
A.J., what's the justification of being docked just cause they have some white on them. Is the white an indication to a feeder or packer that the calf wont be as good as a solid color, if so, what does it indicate?
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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by sstterry » Sun May 31, 2020 4:26 pm

ccr wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 4:13 pm
A.J. wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:43 am
RockinRB wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:07 pm
Angus x fleckvieh would make a dandy cross
They would be some great growing calves and good momma cows. One concern I would have here is the extra chrome you might get if selling at the sale barn. I’ve got an old Simangus cow I raised out of a brown and white Simmental. She raises a great calf every year, but if her calves have much chrome on the side or underneath they got docked pretty good. Some years she will have an almost solid black calf, and some years like this year she will throw one with tons of chrome.
A.J., what's the justification of being docked just cause they have some white on them. Is the white an indication to a feeder or packer that the calf wont be as good as a solid color, if so, what does it indicate?
The whole certified Angus bs.....

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by southernultrablack » Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 pm

Gelbvieh/Angus cross works well. Good moderate mommas with growth.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by A.J. » Sun May 31, 2020 11:35 pm

ccr wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 4:13 pm
A.J. wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:43 am
RockinRB wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 10:07 pm
Angus x fleckvieh would make a dandy cross
They would be some great growing calves and good momma cows. One concern I would have here is the extra chrome you might get if selling at the sale barn. I’ve got an old Simangus cow I raised out of a brown and white Simmental. She raises a great calf every year, but if her calves have much chrome on the side or underneath they got docked pretty good. Some years she will have an almost solid black calf, and some years like this year she will throw one with tons of chrome.
A.J., what's the justification of being docked just cause they have some white on them. Is the white an indication to a feeder or packer that the calf wont be as good as a solid color, if so, what does it indicate?
It stinks, but they do it pretty much because they can, unfortunately. It could be the best looking calf in the bunch, and will still bring significantly less. The order buyers have orders for certain types of calves, so if it doesn’t fit what they are looking for they won’t bid, or if they do, will pay much less. CAB is probably a major factor that helped increase the demand so much for black-hided calves over others. That’s why all the breeds started showing up with black hided versions. I always figured the feedlots or packers one make a lot on those calves bought cheap that are good calves, but are just marked funny or off-color. Others more knowledgeable than me may chime in with more information on the how’s and why’s tho.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by ccr » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:19 am

Whoever came up with the certified angus beef and its promotion was a genius, I guess.
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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by T & B farms » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:19 pm

A balancer cow made up of 75% gelbvieh and 25% angus with a large frame terminal type purebred sim is about the best thing I can find. A touch of ear on the cows would be even better.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by Square_Dancer » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:17 pm

Thanks for the replies. Obviously there's no "correct" answer, but lots of good takes. Regarding registered cattle, it certainly seems Simmental has a lower barrier of entry, but there are a lot of big players in the registered Angus game in TN (e.g. Deer Valley). Little background, but my grandfather had a herd of 50~ head of registered Fleckvieh Simmental for many decades and did quite well at it. He sold the herd a few years ago because he's approaching 90 now and wants to relax and focus on his gardening, fishing, and hunting, as well has hanging the with grandkids and great grandkids, that sort of stuff.
Recently I had been flirting with the idea of getting a herd of 10~ registered cows and was just kinda torn between the two breeds. I know Angus is king in the U.S. as far as numbers of registered cattle and registered operations, but also like Simmental (not necessarily Fleckvieh) for obvious nostalgic reasons.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by sstterry » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:16 am

ccr wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:19 am
Whoever came up with the certified angus beef and its promotion was a genius, I guess.
It was some of the National Angus Association Board members that came up with the idea back in the early 80's as I recall. One of the board members' farm was just about 30 miles from me. For those of us old enough to remember, back before the mid 70's, Angus cattle were short and fat. They started breeding that out in the 70's. The Angus Association came up with CAB to combat the stigma of short fat cattle. On Pasture has a good article called "From Big to Small to Big to Small"


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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by WinterSpringsFarm » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:38 am

Make no mistake, the Simmental breed is just as competitive if not more so than the Angus breed. The big players in the simmental breed are raising incredible cattle.

In my opinion it just depends on what kind of cattle you like to look at. I myself prefer to look at baldy and blaze face simmentals and red angus.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:29 pm

The feedlot buyers dock them "because they can". The white on the body or bellie does not affect the CAB qualification. All they have to be is 50% black hided. It would take a lot of white chrome to be more than 50%.
If I was just starting out, I would probably want to have a herd of SimAngus (commercial or registered). There is no better cow out there than your crossbred - and Simmental and Angus are about the best cross available.
There can be quite a lot of temperament differences between an Angus herd and a Simmental one. Be sure you know your breeders' herd before purchasing cows. I have been breeding Simmental for about 50 years now. Love the breed. Love the excitement of not knowing exactly what color/markings that newborn is going to be. You gotta love going out and looking at your cows, so you have to have what YOU WANT to work with and look at. Making money is nice/mandatory - but you need to enjoy what you are doing, because it is a lot of work for little reward.
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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by Square_Dancer » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:55 am

Thanks for the info, Jeanne.
Would you want to start out with Simmental cows and put an Angus bull on them, or the inverse; Angus cows with a Simmental bull?

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by sstterry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:45 pm

Square_Dancer wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:55 am
Thanks for the info, Jeanne.
Would you want to start out with Simmental cows and put an Angus bull on them, or the inverse; Angus cows with a Simmental bull?
Jeanne and others are much more knowledgeable than me, but I think it would depend on the cows and bulls. I don't have time for calving problems so I want to make sure I know the cow will be able to calve with little difficulty. Right now most of my cows are Angus Charolais cross and they are big cows. I currently have them with a Simmental Bull. I am expecting my first calves from him this fall.

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Re: Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:17 pm

I would recommend using a Simmental bull on a group of commercial cows. The Simmental breed has made the largest advancement of calving ease than any other breed (according to ASA info - LOL) But, Simmental breed is supposed to be within 1% CE to Angus and better than Herefords. So, you decide. There are cow killers in all breeds and there are super great CE bulls in pretty much all breeds. You have to do your homework before purchasing.
All F1 cross cows make super great moms. Higher milk production, higher fertility, longer longevity, etc - but make that F1 a 1/2 Simmental cow and I don't think you could ask for a better working mom. But, you have to realize that I am true blue Simmental queen!!! 50 years and they haven't turned me off!!!
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