Did I miss one?

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Jason105
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Did I miss one?

Post by Jason105 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:58 am

I have a 'steer' acting like a bull.
We have a very small operation, cows are just a hobby for me. I band our bulls at a day old. Last year we only had 2 calves, a bull and a heifer. I banded the bull myself and don't remember any problems, but it was a year ago, and that particular animal is from a line of rather protective mothers, so maybe I was rushed. My two oldest kids, 13 and 18, are the real cowboys here.

How do I tell if I missed one? I don't have a chute, so I can't get my hands on him. I am asking about observing physical features. His behavior tells me he is may be different from other steers we have had.

What do I do if he is a bull? I have a butcher appointment for two animals in January. the plan was to send both the animal in question and the heifer. I was going to pen and grain them in October. I don't want the heifer putting feed into growing a calf, and I don't want either animal's hormones interfering with growth. I also don't want the danger so close to the house. We milk a Jersey, so the kids are in the herd twice a day.

I could sell him at the auction, passing a problem to someone else. I hate to do that, and also take the loss at the barn. The way things are going, beef by the quarter is selling well.

I could call my neighbor with the tranquilizer gun. We could put him under and cut him. The neighbor and I have castrated two older animals this way. It is a risk, since we are guessing on tranq dosage, and risking killing the animal by blood loss or infection. Neither of us has ever corrected a botched banding, if that is the case here.

I could leave him in the herd for now, then lute the heifer when we pen them. I'd have to research the withdrawal time on lute, since we are going to be eating her in January. Inbreeding in the rest of the herd is not a major worry to me. I plan to eat everything produced next year.

I could pen him now and feed him for a September butcher date. He'll be small, and in my way all Summer. I also don't have a buddy for him, unless I pen him with the heifer I was going to feed out.

I am getting my neighbor's bull soon. He is much larger than the animal in question. Would fighting be a problem if I missed a nut? Would the neighbor's bull be a more reliable judge of missed nuts?

Thanks
Jason



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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Jason105 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:33 am

We penned him this morning, he's a bull. Looks like the band broke. I can't believe how fast he went from a dopey little 'steer' to bellowing bull, who pawed at us after we isolated him.

Anyway, the tentative plan is to tranquilize him and cut him, then Lute the heifer we don't want bred. If he bred any of the cows, its no problem.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by TCRanch » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:52 am

It happens but good catch. If they're looking and acting bullish that's reason to investigate. And good call on the Lute - also happens.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by SBMF 2015 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:36 pm

Wait at least ten days after you cut the bull before you Lute the hfr. 7 days and under Lute protects the pregnancy.
Never fear them, but ALWAYS respect them.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Jason105 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:43 am

Thankyou on the Lute tips.

We cut the little bull last night. The neighbor gave him an injection. The bull laid down and went to sleep. We rolled him over and cut him, That is the third one he and I have done this way. This one had the least bleeding. Some of the blood was mine, I cut my finger.

This bull had both testicles, but no scrotum. how did I mess up that badly?

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by SBMF 2015 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:46 pm

Those little nuts are slippery. At least you made an honest mistake.
A neighbor I helped for several years had horrible luck. Several times he accidentally bought "steers" that had been short sacked ( intentionally shoving both nuts up and banding the sack off). They look like strs at a glance, but have all the hormones of a bull. When they get home and settled, they act like bulls. Get big necks, scream, ride everything, and just cause problems.
I've been told they are sterile, because they can't lower their testicles and regulate the correct temperature. So the sperm stays to hot and dies. Not sure I believe that though.
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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Buck Randall » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:11 pm

SBMF 2015 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:46 pm
Those little nuts are slippery. At least you made an honest mistake.
A neighbor I helped for several years had horrible luck. Several times he accidentally bought "steers" that had been short sacked ( intentionally shoving both nuts up and banding the sack off). They look like strs at a glance, but have all the hormones of a bull. When they get home and settled, they act like bulls. Get big necks, scream, ride everything, and just cause problems.
I've been told they are sterile, because they can't lower their testicles and regulate the correct temperature. So the sperm stays to hot and dies. Not sure I believe that though.
They are generally sterile, but it certainly wouldn't be impossible for one to occasionally get something pregnant. I've never heard of people doing it intentionally, but I've cleaned up after plenty of novice banders.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by 5S Cattle » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:47 pm

SBMF 2015 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:46 pm
Those little nuts are slippery. At least you made an honest mistake.
A neighbor I helped for several years had horrible luck. Several times he accidentally bought "steers" that had been short sacked ( intentionally shoving both nuts up and banding the sack off). They look like strs at a glance, but have all the hormones of a bull. When they get home and settled, they act like bulls. Get big necks, scream, ride everything, and just cause problems.
I've been told they are sterile, because they can't lower their testicles and regulate the correct temperature. So the sperm stays to hot and dies. Not sure I believe that though.
What’s the move if the nuts are still up in the guts then?

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Buck Randall » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:15 pm

5S Cattle wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:47 pm
SBMF 2015 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:46 pm
Those little nuts are slippery. At least you made an honest mistake.
A neighbor I helped for several years had horrible luck. Several times he accidentally bought "steers" that had been short sacked ( intentionally shoving both nuts up and banding the sack off). They look like strs at a glance, but have all the hormones of a bull. When they get home and settled, they act like bulls. Get big necks, scream, ride everything, and just cause problems.
I've been told they are sterile, because they can't lower their testicles and regulate the correct temperature. So the sperm stays to hot and dies. Not sure I believe that though.
What’s the move if the nuts are still up in the guts then?
Depends how high they are. Most of the time you can feel them right above the stump of the scrotum, cut and fish them out. Sometimes you get one you won't be able to find. If they're way up there and you can't feel them, you're stuck with a sterile bull.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Dsth » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:45 am

shortly after I started banding my bull calves, I had the vet find a nut while we were vaccinating and green tagging calves. He gave me some good advice that I use every time I band calves now. "count to two" he said. Have not had a nut hiding on me since. I do know that sometimes I have to wait a few more days on some newborns for both nuts to fall. Glad you got your situation all under control and nice job of keeping a watchful eye on your livestock.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Stickney94 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:27 pm

Dsth wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:45 am
shortly after I started banding my bull calves, I had the vet find a nut while we were vaccinating and green tagging calves. He gave me some good advice that I use every time I band calves now. "count to two" he said. Have not had a nut hiding on me since. I do know that sometimes I have to wait a few more days on some newborns for both nuts to fall. Glad you got your situation all under control and nice job of keeping a watchful eye on your livestock.
If you are banding as newborns I've found that waiting until they are 24 hours helps. But counting to two is wisdom at its finest.

I actually use a rubber band to "hold" the testicles first and then put on a green banding ring. Probably overkill.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by Dsth » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:35 am

Stickney94 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:27 pm
Dsth wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:45 am
shortly after I started banding my bull calves, I had the vet find a nut while we were vaccinating and green tagging calves. He gave me some good advice that I use every time I band calves now. "count to two" he said. Have not had a nut hiding on me since. I do know that sometimes I have to wait a few more days on some newborns for both nuts to fall. Glad you got your situation all under control and nice job of keeping a watchful eye on your livestock.
If you are banding as newborns I've found that waiting until they are 24 hours helps. But counting to two is wisdom at its finest.

I actually use a rubber band to "hold" the testicles first and then put on a green banding ring. Probably overkill.
I like to wait until they are 2 - 3 days old just to make sure they seem healthy and off to a good start. Plus I calf in Dec/Jan so I like the calves to adjust to the colder weather before adding the stress of banding.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by gcreekrch » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:30 pm

I band when they are still wet quite often. Count to two is the best advice after the banker taken away.

There is the odd chryptorcid (sp) that you can’t find two on. We leave these and cut with a knife at branding. First ever this year that I couldn’t find #2.
Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by TCRanch » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:42 pm

We used to band day 1 or 2 but had a couple missed ones over the years so now they're all banded when we work them at appx. 3 months - you can't miss 'em then.

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Re: Did I miss one?

Post by WinterSpringsFarm » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:19 pm

had 1 that only had 1 nut. I waited to band him after I had banded all the others. I felt around and never did feel the 2nd one. So either it was way deep in his gut and never dropped or he only had 1.

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