Today's workshop

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salebarn junkie
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby salebarn junkie » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:40 pm

First cattle I ever bought were 4 weights kept them 5 months sold them for 20$ less than what I paid for them. Terrible time to own cattle. The commission on bottle calves was more than the calf was worth. That was the first of a lot of expensive lessons. I always expect the worst when buying cattle. I think the reason so many sale barns are gone is because of good paved roads 1 ton pickups and gooseneck trailers you can pick your barn. My grandpa hauled cows in a 1/2 ton pickup with stock racks he went to the closest yard he could find.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby TexasBred » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:44 pm

salebarn junkie wrote:First cattle I ever bought were 4 weights kept them 5 months sold them for 20$ less than what I paid for them. Terrible time to own cattle. The commission on bottle calves was more than the calf was worth. That was the first of a lot of expensive lessons. I always expect the worst when buying cattle. I think the reason so many sale barns are gone is because of good paved roads 1 ton pickups and gooseneck trailers you can pick your barn. My grandpa hauled cows in a 1/2 ton pickup with stock racks he went to the closest yard he could find.



Lotta truth in that. Gotta stay on top of it or they can just go on down the road a few miles....and they will !!!! But also exactly the way it should be. Keeps the bad ones weeded out.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Gators Rule » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:40 pm

I remember as a kid that the most cost efficient way to raise a calf from birth to sale barn age was to take a .38 Special out to the pasture and shoot the calf in the head the day he/she was born. Cut the losses quickly. Of course I'm kidding.....but only a little.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:22 pm

salebarn junkie wrote:First cattle I ever bought were 4 weights kept them 5 months sold them for 20$ less than what I paid for them. Terrible time to own cattle. The commission on bottle calves was more than the calf was worth. That was the first of a lot of expensive lessons. I always expect the worst when buying cattle. I think the reason so many sale barns are gone is because of good paved roads 1 ton pickups and gooseneck trailers you can pick your barn. My grandpa hauled cows in a 1/2 ton pickup with stock racks he went to the closest yard he could find.



You want to talk about take a whupping haul some to the barn with a B branded on their jaw.
That was ugly.
I would have made money shooting them in the pasture.
Edit I forgot to put I got .05 to .10 cents a pound.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby bball » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:14 pm

I figured mine earlier in the year in the Gross Sales /Net profit Regional thread....

[i]Re: Gross Sales /Net profit Regional
Postby 1982vett » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:11 pm

Seed - 1141.84
Fertilizer - 4522.00
Feed - 487.1
--------------------------

I could be all wet here, but here goes. I do it a bit differently...
I expect a cow to raise her own calf.
2014 my cost per cow per day was $1.54. That includes every expense associated with my beef operation (taxes,fuel,vaccines, wormer,grain, fertilizer, tags on trailer/truck, hay,etc)
Based on 190 days until wean @ $1.54/day = $292.60 per calf
That's what it costs me to maintain the cow that is raising that calf. All my expenses are built into the daily cost of operation. So basically, the more it costs per day to maintain a cow, the less money I make at weaning. These are Simm/ang cross that weaned at avg 573 lb. I do not overstock pasture. Like previously stated, we are really grass farmers, so it is imperative to maintain soil and forages while optimizing animal husbandry.[/quote]

That daily cost sounds reasonable but what do you do with her the other 175 days of the year?[/quote]

I should have been more thorough. ..what it costs to maintain that cow while she has a calf on her..I get what your driving at, I was basing the expense of raising the calf only while the calf was here (190 days), but sure you could make a good argument that calf costs 1.54 x 365=$562.10 ...since I'm keeping cows all year. I'm in the habit of per 190 days because I compare each cows calf wt and sale price at the end of 190days, so I know exactly who my money makers are and who may need to be culled. personally, I don't like to say the calf costs 365 x 1.54 because how do you figure in when you sell the cow? Calf shouldn't be penalized entirely for operating expense to maintain a cow when youre going to also make money on cow when you cull her? Or should they?
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby 1982vett » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:17 pm

fitz wrote:
1982vett wrote:

If calculations are correct....186 days to get their.


That daily cost sounds reasonable but what do you do with her the other 175 days of the year?

Average age to weaning, weighing, and selling from birth was 186 days. The other 175 days are just another day in a cows life......loafing around, grazing, chewing her cud, looking for nothing good to get into... :D
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:23 pm

bball your way is actually more efficient than mine on determining the cull I like that.
I did mine a little different as the cow must wean a calf within 10% of her per group.
My cost was 1.52 last year per day I still say the calf cost 554.80 as I have to keep operating the factory.
Your way actually shows the exact profit for the cow.
This method has just been instituted here.
You can teach an old dog new tricks.

IMO you should type that all out and Macon make that a sticky for the new people.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Brute 23 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:13 pm

That grades the calf but that is only one piece of the equation to grade each unit of production (cow).

You have initial cost
What it cost to keep the cow 365 day
What her calf brings
What her mate cost
What she sold for

You can build a spreadsheet that you fill in the blanks each year and it will grade each cow.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby bball » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:bball your way is actually more efficient than mine on determining the cull I like that.
I did mine a little different as the cow must wean a calf within 10% of her per group.
My cost was 1.52 last year per day I still say the calf cost 554.80 as I have to keep operating the factory.
Your way actually shows the exact profit for the cow.
This method has just been instituted here.
You can teach an old dog new tricks.

IMO you should type that all out and Macon make that a sticky for the new people.


(Cost per day per cow) x (number of days until wean) = per calf expense.
$ 1.54 x 190 day = $292.60 Example

Knowing cost per day to operate is key. I usually wean all calfs at same time, but birthdates fluctuate. So naturally, the number of wean days will vary per calf slightly.

Next,

(Calf weight @ wean) × (price per lb) = calf gross $
610 × $2.35 = $1433.5 Example
Then,
(Calf gross $) - (calf expense $) = Calf Net
$1433.5 - $292.6 = $1140.90 Example

Another way for the cow productivity,

(cost per day per cow) × 365 = per cow annual expense

(Calf gross $) - (cow annual expense) = Net cow profit
$1433.5 - $562.1 = $871.40 Example
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby bball » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:22 am

Brute 23 wrote:That grades the calf but that is only one piece of the equation to grade each unit of production (cow).

You have initial cost
What it cost to keep the cow 365 day
What her calf brings
What her mate cost
What she sold for

You can build a spreadsheet that you fill in the blanks each year and it will grade each cow.


Agree Brute, but most everything you listed is built into equations

Initial cost: once you buy the cow it never changes, its really most relevant in determining if the cow is able to pay herself off by reproducing consistently and growing a quality beef. The sucky part is, IMO, this can be the greatest risk area. If you overpay for a dud, you cant really fix that. Im a pencil/ paper guy, so every cow i own has a card, and the upper right corner lists the initial cost.

Annual cost per cow: 365 × daily cost per head. Very important part of equation

Calf gross: its also in equation

Mate cost: this is easy for me because i keep a bull, so his expense is already figured into the daily cost of operation. For the AI guys, it should be as well.

What she sold for: Hopefully more than we paid for her :P but you would have to use her initial cost, with her overall profitability over the years and her sale price to find out just how good an animal she was for your operation.


Side note: just in case someone is wondering how I arrive at my per day per cow cost:

Add up every single cent you spend on anything to do with your operation = total expenses
take total expenses and divide by 365 days = operating cost per day
take operating cost per day and divide by total number of animals you have = operating cost per head per day
IMHO, i believe knowing this number is vital in determining the viability and success of your operation.
:2cents:
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Jabes0623 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:53 am

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... /26094811/

"5.3 million Iowa laying hens to be destroyed."

A perfect example of how a completely unknown market factor yesterday is having a massive effect on the market today. The pundits & "experts" can speculate all they want, but reality always has a way of defying expectations.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Caustic Burno » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:15 am

Jabes0623 wrote:http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2015/04/20/avian-flu-chicken-eggs/26094811/

"5.3 million Iowa laying hens to be destroyed."

A perfect example of how a completely unknown market factor yesterday is having a massive effect on the market today. The pundits & "experts" can speculate all they want, but reality always has a way of defying expectations.



Agree to some extent but those laying hens can be replaced in 21 days
We can't move fast. There has been natural disaster since Adam and Eve we still move
at the same speed as then.
The current cows prices were caused by a 100 year event not the natural ten year cycle.
What makes this even more disastrous IMO it drove thousands of producers out to never return
caused feedlot and slaughter plant closings that will never reopen.
Those laying hens are a drop in the bucket to the corporation, the drought sped up where the cattle
industry was going by decades.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Jabes0623 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:39 am

I wasn't trying to make an apples to apples comparison. I just saw this story & it reminded me of this thread & just how precarious all of our positions are in this business & how something happening 1,000 miles away from you can have a tremendous impact on you.

If something similar to this happened in the cattle industry the results would be catastrophic for some & a boom for others. Like you said there's no way to quickly recover the cattle industry after a major disaster natural or otherwise. It's just one of many reasons to do what you need to do today & not waste too much time looking into an unknown future.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Brute 23 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:46 am

Your right Jabes. People try so hard to "work the market" and "find the nitch". The easiest way to make a bunch of money is be in the right place at the right time. The more time you are in the game the better your odds are to score points.
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Re: Today's workshop

Postby Caustic Burno » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:30 pm

Jabes0623 wrote:I wasn't trying to make an apples to apples comparison. I just saw this story & it reminded me of this thread & just how precarious all of our positions are in this business & how something happening 1,000 miles away from you can have a tremendous impact on you.

If something similar to this happened in the cattle industry the results would be catastrophic for some & a boom for others. Like you said there's no way to quickly recover the cattle industry after a major disaster natural or otherwise. It's just one of many reasons to do what you need to do today & not waste too much time looking into an unknown future.


Jabes I know that you are new and you like this love it I get it.
My PM box has exploded from people doing this for awhile that agree that just do not want to get in the fray.
If by starting this thread I have got you to look at herd management of the future it was successful.
IMO there is only one type cattleman that survives this for decades not the glass half full not the glass half
empty but the one it is bone dry with a dirt dabbers nest in the bottom.

I used to calf year around mild climate just a short drive to several salebarns.
It was fun didn't hardly add any cost the pump didn't laugh at a 100 dollar bill to fill up the Ford Super Duty.
Now if the one I am using closes the closest is 90 miles away that is going to take a lot of profit out 2 dollar calves.
If I could get them to calf on the same day would be great.

We have lost half of our slaughter plants feedlots and salebarns .
The drought was the absolute worst thing that could have happened to us with the technology and regulations today .
You can call todays prices and market what ever you want. I see chickens late 60's early 70's hogs of the 80's.
Do your own research they will not be back. The prices today that has everyone whopping and hollering will be a lot of slow walking and sad singing in the future. Don't worry it is not going to happen tomorrow but if I was
a young man looking at several decades down the road I sure would be looking to get my ducks in a row.
Good Luck :tiphat:
Last edited by Caustic Burno on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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