Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:47 pm

lol, I have one that is 290 days bred today.... I hate the wait!
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby WalnutCrest » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:47 pm

And lookie lookie! 78lb heifer just hit the ground. I think we're going to call her Dandy -- we could not be more pleased. :)

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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby farmerjan » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:10 am

All I can say is WOW. You are one very special farmer to do what you did, even with her being such a good heifer, that is all so amazing. Do they all have such wonderful PATIENT dispositions??? I would love to fool with a few of them on the side; we have a commercial operation and I use some jerseys and guernseys as nurse cows and am getting ready to retire from milk testing. Love the muscling and they are supposed to be some of the best beef too right? God bless you and all the vets that you have worked with. It is a tribute to what the vet world can do in the right conditions. One of the farmers I test for has some very high end Holsteins and he goes to Trans Ova in Maryland to aspirate a couple of his cows and has sent embryos all over the world. He went to Switzerland this past Oct to see some of the cattle that are a result of the embryos he's sold.
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:37 pm

Wow, what a cutie!
We had ours last night too! I was a little concerned, since it was 290 days, but the little bugger was only 64 pounds! I guess he just needed a little longer to bake all that goodness inside! It was down to the high 20's last night, so this morning we brought him in to weigh him and decided to leave him and his dam inside for the night today, since we are expecting single digits and snow!
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby Supa Dexta » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:03 pm

Was that AI or bull bred?

How do you decide at that point if a 60lb calf is one week late and not 2 weeks early?
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:24 pm

I do not keep breeding age bulls around SD (at least, none near the females - the ones we develop and sell by 12 months old are kept in a very far pasture), however... this guy is sired by a walking bull. The cow was a two year old nursing, and after two AI attempts, I decided to live cover her with a 11 month old bull we had that was an embryo bull with a really good pedigree (and I did not want to lose more time on her). She stuck on that one jump! lol. We haltered the bull and walked him into our working facility, where I brought the cow up (on a halter also). Margonme was here when I bred her, and he thought it was odd (not typical pasture breeding...). I watch our heats well enough to know when they come in heat. With no bulls around, we rely on the cow's body language and the jumping behavior. I know my cows are pregnant for sure after 42 days from service, but am pretty certain by 23 days after service. So I know this cow was exactly 290 days, since she never cycled after the bull covered her and not two weeks early.
And not to take this thread off track, but here is another curve bender...that bull calf is sired by a bull with poor EPD's, since the embryo bull was sired by Macho (who had bad CE numbers). I'll start another thread to give details, but if EPD's told the only story that calf should have been a monster! lol...
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby WalnutCrest » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:40 pm

farmerjan wrote:All I can say is WOW. You are one very special farmer to do what you did, even with her being such a good heifer, that is all so amazing.


Not really a special farmer as much as a guy who happened to have some available funds and decided to put them towards a project to turn what could have been a large loss into, over time, a break-even or better proposition. With this heifer on the ground, the one bred recip and seven more embryos to implant next year, there is a good chance break-even should happen in the next couple of years. So, don't make me out to be too much of a saint! Our cattle are expected to work for a living -- Begonia just was given a special project and needed some extra funding from HQ to make it happen.

farmerjan wrote:Do they all have such wonderful PATIENT dispositions???


Like all breeds, some are more patient than others. Here's a picture of a friend of mine petting our bull, Zach. There are some I'd not try this with, but our bulls are part puppy dog, I think.

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farmerjan wrote:I would love to fool with a few of them on the side; we have a commercial operation and I use some jerseys and guernseys as nurse cows and am getting ready to retire from milk testing. Love the muscling and they are supposed to be some of the best beef too right?


I have 1-2 heifers I'd consider selling. If you're interested, you can PM me. And, yes, the beef we've had has been very very good. When one of our beef clients told us that buying our beef was the best decision he and his wife had made in the first five years of their marriage, I told him he needed to work on making better decisions!

In all seriousness, the muscle fibers are long and thin and easy to cut. Across the board, the beef is lean, tender and flavorful.

farmerjan wrote:God bless you and all the vets that you have worked with. It is a tribute to what the vet world can do in the right conditions.


Dr. Jolly at Step Ahead Farms was spectacular to work with. Everyone at Trans Ova was tremendous. Both groups were very conscientious.

farmerjan wrote:One of the farmers I test for has some very high end Holsteins and he goes to Trans Ova in Maryland to aspirate a couple of his cows and has sent embryos all over the world. He went to Switzerland this past Oct to see some of the cattle that are a result of the embryos he's sold.


Making / selling / using embryos is definitely exciting / expensive. When it works (i.e., you get a live calf that works out for your program or a clients' program), it's fun to be a part of the process...

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:Wow, what a cutie! We had ours last night too!


Congratulations!
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby Cucumber35 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:57 pm

Just saw this thread for the first time tonight. Very cool to read through and get updated all the way up to the present. Awesome outcome so far to what started out as a bad situation.
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby Nesikep » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:36 am

Nice calf! good to see it, I've been following it loosely from the beginning. Longest gestation I've had here was 305 days.. talk about a wait! And yes, I'm certain it wasn't from the next cycle.. that family of cows always gestates a bull calf in the 290's
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby boondocks » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:22 am

Congratulations--glad to see the good news!
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves

Postby holstein123 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:34 pm

Till-Hill wrote:I'd call Trans Ova and see what they say about getting eggs or what not out of her. I'd guess they would know the most.

Maybe a little of the subject
But wondering is there a market for IVF angus embryos
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves

Postby WalnutCrest » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:13 pm

holstein123 wrote:
Till-Hill wrote:I'd call Trans Ova and see what they say about getting eggs or what not out of her. I'd guess they would know the most.

Maybe a little of the subject
But wondering is there a market for IVF angus embryos


There is a market for all sorts of IVF embryos ... just depends on the pairing.
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby boondocks » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:19 am

Embryos are sold (several together) at every registered Angus sale I've been to, with their ancestry proudly touted. Some go for real money. But apparently the conception rates are very very low. Had an acquaintance buy some and I think he said you are doing very well if 1 in 4 take. He spent a lot and got one calf, gave it up.
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby WalnutCrest » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:37 am

boondocks wrote:Embryos are sold (several together) at every registered Angus sale I've been to, with their ancestry proudly touted. Some go for real money. But apparently the conception rates are very very low. Had an acquaintance buy some and I think he said you are doing very well if 1 in 4 take. He spent a lot and got one calf, gave it up.


There are lots of factors that go into it.

Quality of the egg. Quality of the semen. Quality (and honesty) of the technician freezing the embryos. Quality and health if the recips. Skill and honesty of the technician putting in embryos.

In 2016, we have put in 31 IVF eggs (fullblood Aubrac) and got 16 pregnancies (with two preg checks still to go and two more implants that leaked into 2017).

One donor was only one for six.

One was one for two.

One was seven (with one preg check all to go) for nine.

And one was seven (with one preg check still to go) of 14. We're putting in two more of these in a week or so.

Three of four donors were 50% or better.


As to sires ...
One sire was zero for two.

One was one for two.

One was one for four.

One was six (with one to go) for 16. We are putting in two more of these in a week or so, so he could still be a 50% success rate sire.

One was eight (with one to go) for 10. This sire was a paternal half brother to the one that was one for four.

............

One of our clients got 8 pregnancies out of 11 IVF embryos from the same donors and sires.
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Re: Anyone w/ experience w/ frozen hooves on valuable calves?

Postby WalnutCrest » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:44 pm

An update ... both are doing pretty good I think.

Dandy at 4 months 1.5 weeks ... Begonia at 3 years 1 month.

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