New bull

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MarkH
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Re: New bull

Postby MarkH » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:00 pm

Lithuanian Farmer,

Is the heifer that calved with the 106 LB calf now 3 years old?
Are you a Member of the Lithuanian Organic Beef Association?
Have you or any other cattlemen in Lithuania considered using calving ease Limousin or red Charolais bulls from North America?
Are you considering using Aubrac bulls since they were promoted in Lithuania?

Mark
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:55 pm

MarkH wrote:Lithuanian Farmer,

Is the heifer that calved with the 106 LB calf now 3 years old?
Are you a Member of the Lithuanian Organic Beef Association?
Have you or any other cattlemen in Lithuania considered using calving ease Limousin or red Charolais bulls from North America?
Are you considering using Aubrac bulls since they were promoted in Lithuania?

Mark

She's 33 months old, so near 3 years.
Not a member of that association, but a member of Association of Lithuanian Beef Cattle Breeders.
No for us, but don't know for others. Too expensive for the transportation. However, know a couple Angus breeders, who has some cattle with Canadian genetics. In Europe there are plenty easy calving lines, but as we bought our bull from my country, here are no info about the bulls, except for their name and breed. We will buy a bull from abroad with all the figures in the future.
No. Maybe me and my father would, because here are some very good Aubrac cattle, but my mom said no.
Thanks for questions.
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Re: New bull

Postby MarkH » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:36 pm

I would like to see you improve calving ease,maternal traits, and growth. You can do this by using North American genetics in both the Charolais and Limousin breeds. From progeny testing done in Norway and Sweden between French and North American bulls the French bulls were trounced in the areas of calving ease, maternal traits, and growth. The french breeds lead in muscle per unit body weight and reducing fat content in the meat (if that is what you want). Across the Baltic may be your source of North American genetics.
I would eventually like to see you be able to breed your heifers as long yearlings instead of waiting until they are over 28 months old. This will make your cows more productive over their lifespans.
Here is an example: http://www.semexusa.com/beef/i?lang=en& ... 2=MC326558 and another: http://www.ltranch.com/sires/charolais/ ... 32Pld.html
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:18 pm

MarkH wrote:I would like to see you improve calving ease,maternal traits, and growth. You can do this by using North American genetics in both the Charolais and Limousin breeds. From progeny testing done in Norway and Sweden between French and North American bulls the French bulls were trounced in the areas of calving ease, maternal traits, and growth. The french breeds lead in muscle per unit body weight and reducing fat content in the meat (if that is what you want). Across the Baltic may be your source of North American genetics.
I would eventually like to see you be able to breed your heifers as long yearlings instead of waiting until they are over 28 months old. This will make your cows more productive over their lifespans.
Here is an example: http://www.semexusa.com/beef/i?lang=en& ... 2=MC326558 and another: http://www.ltranch.com/sires/charolais/ ... 32Pld.html

We've no problems with maternity or growth, and can say that cows are easy calving. If calf is big it doesn't mean that it's a hard calving. I could bet that most cows with full American genetics couldn't handle the same size calves without problems as the European ones. One friend had a Char calf born at 220lbs weight, cow calved naturally and stood up after a couple minutes. The average full French Char bull calf is born at ~110-125lbs, but often can be much bigger. If we'll see that we need to improve calving ease in the herd will use Salers bull to get very easy calving replacements.
Here in Europe you can find very different lines, with very good growth, very easy calving and etc. And they usually are more muscled. We need more muscles.
Not a fan of AI too. The bull is good enough for a commercial herd. Once we'll have some purebred cows, will use AI once in awhile, but will choose from the French, Irish or English genetics.
Here some people started calving heifers at 24-25months age, but still heifers needs to be a proper size at the breeding time. As long as we don't have a normal barn and feed hay we can't reach that size at a younger age. And at the moment we want to increase the size of cows. Maybe there in US cattle are faster maturing and can be good mothers at a young age, but here some breeds heifers need to be abit elder to be good moms. There was a research done is France with a couple French breeds like Charolais, Limousine, Blondes and Aubracs, and the easiest calvers and good moms were heifers calved elder than 2.5years.
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Re: New bull

Postby MarkH » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:57 pm

Where I was raised in Western Canada our cows could handle a110 LB calf no problems. heifers regularly do 90 to 100LB calves no problems. Heifers are grown out to around 1,000 LB yearling weight at 13 months when they are bred. If they fail to breed in a two month period they are culled. We do not like to have calves over 110 LB because one guy and his family will have to calve by themselves and far from any vet upwards of 300 or more cows. For bull customers like this calving ease on a 1,500 crossbred cow is imperative. The cows are also a big portion of his income and the calves have to perform. Here success is measured by pounds of calf per 100 cows exposed. The only market for big birth weight bulls is from Hutterite colonies (Anabaptist religious sect than farms collective farm style) that essentially have free labor to watch the cows with.
Most of the Charolais bulls have some Full French Blood in them to improve muscularity and easy fleshing while the American breeding contribute maternal and growth traits. The French breeding that does best are either Impair or Icare influence. Since we have seen calves off of the latest French Bulls we know exactly how they do relative to domestically bred cattle here. Heifers used to be bred very similarly to how the French do it 50 years ago in Canada. It was found though exhaustive study by the USDA and Ag Canada that females that calve at 2 years old raise more pounds of calf though out their lifespans than later calving heifers. Proper bull selection is key here.
How long have you been traising beef cattle?
Is it the primary source of your income?
Where are you getting training in vocational Agricuture?
Just some questions to try and find out your situation.
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Re: New bull

Postby MarkH » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:15 pm

I forgot to add:
If you want to add cow size then don't worry about using cattle in the northern most of the cows are in the 900 Kg range with many just after calving weighing over that.
Also Salers area known quantity here in fact a major Charolais Breeder in North Dakota raises them: http://effertzkeyranch.com/ Not a bad animal for maternal and calving ease but feedlot buyers do not lke the wat they feed?
One additional question: What is the slaughter market you are looking at? A grass finished lean product?
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:37 am

It's almost 13 years since we bought our first cow. Yes, cattle are the main source of income, could say that almost the only.
We calve cows by ourselves too. At the moment, when I'm studying away from home, parents work alone, plus needs to take care of two years old child, but one person can took care of calvings without problems. We don't have more than 1-2 harder calvings in one year. Usually it's heifers, but if they'll continue having problems next year, would cull them. During all years of having cattle all calves were born naturally and this year had the first calf which needed vet's assistance, because the calf went breach.
Have two cows from Impair line, but those are the least favorite Charx cows we have. Calves have too little of muscles. Have half sisters to those two cows sired by another Char bulls and those perform better for us.
Our market don't care how cattle have been fed. The best price you'll get for a medium fat grade and the more muscles the higher price. That's why we look for more muscled cattle. I think American or Canadian lines aren't muscular enought for our market.
At the moment this Char bull is very popular in commercial herds and we would like to use him or something similar in the future.
http://www.progressivegenetics.ie/Store/Detail/FISTON
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Re: New bull

Postby Nesikep » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:43 pm

Enjoyed reading this.. And how markets change so drastically, especially on a different continent, and the change in the type of cow that goes along with that
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Re: New bull

Postby MarkH » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:00 pm

I took a look at Fiston and think he is a worthy bull to use on your dairy cows to get a more beefy animal and replacements. He appears almost to be a culard type. One thing that sticks out in my mind is the warning not to use him on muscular cows. I also like the fact you are using Irish bulls; I think they are better than the UK ones. Here is one from Dovea you might like: http://www.doveagenetics.ie/bivouac-ch2218.html
The idea for using North American genetics is not for the average cow. It would merely be to calve out young heifers ( get a calf earlier) or breed to cows that may have too much muscle. Here is a list of bulls the Swedes and Norwegians have imported:http://charolaisbanner.com/newcbsite/international-genetics/
Can you grade up to purebred status in Lithuania?
I am wondering also if you have considered using Belgian Blue or Parathenaise due to the emphasis you have on muscle.
I also herd that Lithuania exported some beef to the U. S. do you know anything about this?
I also gather you are a student what are you studying?
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:29 am

MarkH wrote:I took a look at Fiston and think he is a worthy bull to use on your dairy cows to get a more beefy animal and replacements. He appears almost to be a culard type. One thing that sticks out in my mind is the warning not to use him on muscular cows. I also like the fact you are using Irish bulls; I think they are better than the UK ones. Here is one from Dovea you might like: http://www.doveagenetics.ie/bivouac-ch2218.html
The idea for using North American genetics is not for the average cow. It would merely be to calve out young heifers ( get a calf earlier) or breed to cows that may have too much muscle. Here is a list of bulls the Swedes and Norwegians have imported:http://charolaisbanner.com/newcbsite/international-genetics/
Can you grade up to purebred status in Lithuania?
I am wondering also if you have considered using Belgian Blue or Parathenaise due to the emphasis you have on muscle.
I also herd that Lithuania exported some beef to the U. S. do you know anything about this?
I also gather you are a student what are you studying?

Not using Irish AI bulls at the moment. Will use when will have purebred cattle. The limousine bull we've now has irish and french genetics. Don't have any dairy cows, the highest %of dairy in some cows are 50%.
Can't register a crossbred animal as purebred even if it has over 90% one breed's blood.
Have an interest in Parthenaise, Blonde breeds. But no purebred animals in my country yet. If had extra money probably would buy some heifers and bull from abroad.
Haven't heard about export to US.
I'm the 2nd year veterinary medicine student.
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Re: New bull

Postby Gogetter » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:16 pm

When considering what points did he have that you wanted?
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:28 pm

I really doubt if we gonna use genetics from US or Canada. We like European ones better, plus it's much closer to us and that makes it way cheaper. Here really are some very easy calving bloodlines with whatever traits you're looking for, like maternal or terminal. Some people here have cows or bulls with canadian or US roots, so always can find some if wanted. At the moment there are two very nice looking Angus bulls for sale with Canadian bloodlines. However we want to raise bigger more muscled breeds like Limos or Charolais. Angus could be a good choise for heifers, but at the moment all heifers are bred.
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:35 pm

I would like that in the future our herd would look something similar to this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHScgFiWq_Q
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:56 am

Finally after some rest have the 3rd calf on the ground by the new bull. This time have a heifer calf out of a double muscled 3/4Limo cow. Nice 92lbs heifer born very easily. Pretty tall, but slim and not very meaty.
Again our heifers are trying to have bigger calves than full grown cows.
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Have another cow on 282th day today, so the 4th calf from this bull should arrive soon. Some other cows and two heifers are due to calve in a month time too. So far can say that this bull isn't a hard calving, would say normal, but not very easy. Calves are born tall, quite big body and pretty slim, but thankfully not much of meat, no extreme muscles which we sometimes got from the previous bull. Wouldn't him suggest for small heifers or cows with smaller pelvis. Not worried about cows, but have some worries about a few heifers calving to him. Almost all are due starting 28th of august, so they have plenty of time to grow. The smallest now is ~1100lbs. However don't want any calves over 100lbs from them.
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Re: New bull

Postby lithuanian farmer » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:42 am

The 4th calf was born from the new bull. Another heifer out of 3/4 Limo cow. One very tall girl and only 88lbs. Cow calved very quickly. She's ~32in tall only one day old! She sure gonna be tall as her dad. But very slim girl.
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Earlier born girl.
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