What are the downsides to fall calving?

The place to start if you are new!
User avatar
Son of Butch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3887
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:44 pm
Location: Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:33 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
M-5 wrote:People do it both ways but I would be more concerned with a so called friend giving you terms on your bull.
IMO your bull your call . or tell him to kiss your AZZ

I think I missed this chapter in Mr. Carnegie's book on How to Win Friends and Influence People.
:)

A good book on success by listening and learning to understand what motivates other people in your life.
0 x

User avatar
Son of Butch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3887
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:44 pm
Location: Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:48 pm

M-5 wrote:
M-5 wrote:People do it both ways but I would be more concerned with a so called friend giving you terms on your bull.
IMO your bull your call . or tell him to kiss your AZZ

one of my best friends is True Grit and we get along great .

Just saying awfully harsh judgment (advising them to tell Their Friend to kiss off in CAPITAL letters) without first
knowing the facts of the matter. I was not saying you don't have any friends.
0 x

User avatar
M-5
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5577
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:41 pm
Location: AT the FLORIDA STATE line checking papers

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby M-5 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:05 pm

SOB, he said that his friend would only consider the arrangement if he could have spring calves. I only made an observation and a comment that It was his bull and he should make the rules. That's how It is supposed to work . He asked about fall calves because of his reservation on this deal. I hate to see folks that get taken advantage of.
0 x
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." JFK

User avatar
Boot Jack Bulls
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 701
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:03 pm
Location: NW WI

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Boot Jack Bulls » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 pm

NonTypicalCPA wrote:Just updated my profile for location. Yes I'm in SW Michigan. Any northern fall calvers on here with advice to share?

I'm in NW WI. We have spring and fall calving herds. The falls calve in Sept & Oct. The trick for us seems to be making sure the calves and cows get a chance to get good grass before the fall/winter sets in. I want the calves to be a couple months old and a couple hundred pounds before snow flies. You do not want them dropping the calves in that first big snow if you can avoid it. If they calve in the snow, why not wait until March. Just remember to pasture where calves can get shelter if need be (we have a grove of pines that serve this purpose and is suffice) and meet the nutritional demands of a milking cow through the rough season. For northerners, a fall calving season can be a cost-effective, low-input scenario if done right.
0 x
Boot Jack Cattle LLC & Boot Jack Boers

User avatar
Son of Butch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3887
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:44 pm
Location: Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:11 pm

NonTypicalCPA wrote:.... he has a larger herd and will only consider the arrangement if....

This tells me CPA approached his friend.... and the friend replied with what would work for him.

CPA's friend has always done spring calving because he sells registered breeding stock and he has no interest in using
the bull... unless of course his friend CPA was planning on changing to fall calving.
That doesn't make his friend a bad guy. Just 2 good friends discussing options.
0 x

cowgirl8
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4246
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:37 am
Location: NE Texas

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby cowgirl8 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:38 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:You'll feed a wet cow all winter.
I feel for the fall calvers this year. They usually enjoy the higher prices at the sale barn this time of year. They need the extra money because they've spent it on feeding the cows. But, this year was a first, prices down. Lower than the fall sales. If I were a fall calver, I would reconsider this year....although its probably too late.


The prices are higher now than last October by about $40.00 per 100. I'm not able to follow what your saying.

Here they've done nothing but drop since October....
0 x
For those who understand, need no explanation, ....for those who don't, none will do

User avatar
Brute 23
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6380
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: South Texas Gulf Coast

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Brute 23 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:51 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:You'll feed a wet cow all winter.
I feel for the fall calvers this year. They usually enjoy the higher prices at the sale barn this time of year. They need the extra money because they've spent it on feeding the cows. But, this year was a first, prices down. Lower than the fall sales. If I were a fall calver, I would reconsider this year....although its probably too late.


The prices are higher now than last October by about $40.00 per 100. I'm not able to follow what your saying.


Your just looking at money in... not money out. The difference in price from then to now is not high enough to cover the expense of keeping them to now.

That's how I see most ranchers go broke.
0 x
Brimmer Pimpin Ain't Easy

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4515
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:12 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:You'll feed a wet cow all winter.
I feel for the fall calvers this year. They usually enjoy the higher prices at the sale barn this time of year. They need the extra money because they've spent it on feeding the cows. But, this year was a first, prices down. Lower than the fall sales. If I were a fall calver, I would reconsider this year....although its probably too late.


The prices are higher now than last October by about $40.00 per 100. I'm not able to follow what your saying.


Your just looking at money in... not money out. The difference in price from then to now is not high enough to cover the expense of keeping them to now.

That's how I see most ranchers go broke.


If the cow is wet or dry I have to feed hay through the winter. A 500lb steer is worth $200. more right now then it was in October. My thinking is you couldn't make a 500lb steer eat a $100. worth of feed. I shoot for 2 lbs a day of gain for steers and culls, and supplement very little unless I'm selling heifers at a specialty sale.
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
Brute 23
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6380
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: South Texas Gulf Coast

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Brute 23 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:40 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Brute 23 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
The prices are higher now than last October by about $40.00 per 100. I'm not able to follow what your saying.


Your just looking at money in... not money out. The difference in price from then to now is not high enough to cover the expense of keeping them to now.

That's how I see most ranchers go broke.


If the cow is wet or dry I have to feed hay through the winter. A 500lb steer is worth $200. more right now then it was in October. My thinking is you couldn't make a 500lb steer eat a $100. worth of feed. I shoot for 2 lbs a day of gain for steers and culls, and supplement very little unless I'm selling heifers at a specialty sale.


Im sure some one has a study on this but visually it appears cows can make it thru the winter a lot better being bred than milking calves. Producing milk requires a lot of calories or protein or what ever it is. Plus #400+ calveseat like teenagers.

I feed on average less than 1 bale per head per year. That is partially do to low stocking rates but mostly due to not carry calves thru the winter. If I carried calves it would easily double or triple that hay amount. With the high cost of hay that is the difference between making a profit or not. Hay is like shredding... It's a necessary evil that does zero to your bottom line and should only be done as a last ditch effort. It's hard to make money feeding 3-4 bales per head per year. That is the difference between a $300 calf cost and a $500+ calf cost.

I know some people have to keep animals thru the winter but you have to be selling seed stock or in a sticker game. It doesn't pay for the average cow/calf producer.
0 x
Brimmer Pimpin Ain't Easy

cowgirl8
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4246
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:37 am
Location: NE Texas

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby cowgirl8 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:45 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:You'll feed a wet cow all winter.
I feel for the fall calvers this year. They usually enjoy the higher prices at the sale barn this time of year. They need the extra money because they've spent it on feeding the cows. But, this year was a first, prices down. Lower than the fall sales. If I were a fall calver, I would reconsider this year....although its probably too late.


The prices are higher now than last October by about $40.00 per 100. I'm not able to follow what your saying.


Your just looking at money in... not money out. The difference in price from then to now is not high enough to cover the expense of keeping them to now.

That's how I see most ranchers go broke.

Not what i'm saying at all.....Saying that if you have fall calving cows, you feed wet cows through the winter. Usually calves bring more this time of year and you need them to bring more because you fed a nursing cow all winter. But this year, here, the price has dropped since October. I was saying if I were a fall calving operation, i'd reconsider spring calving.. Not keeping the calves till fall sale time. Its too late to reconsider because their cows are already bred.....
0 x
For those who understand, need no explanation, ....for those who don't, none will do

User avatar
Brute 23
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6380
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: South Texas Gulf Coast

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Brute 23 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:47 pm

Plus, there are other factors that influenced the big spread you are referring to last year. If you could have seen that coming a head of time you should have been buying futures or some thing else getting rich... not raising cows.
0 x
Brimmer Pimpin Ain't Easy

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4515
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:28 pm

I feed 3 rolls of hay per cow during the winter. And limit graze oats, rye and ryegrass. My cows look a lot better in the spring then in the fall for sure. And my fertilizer bill is higher during the spring - summer than the fall - winter. This year has been good for the spring calf sales and in 2014 there was a $530.00 dollar difference from my spring calves to fall calves. I'm glad selling in the fall works good for you but, I'm keeping a fall and spring herd. There's no doubt I've done way better with my spring calves than my fall calves the last 5 years.
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
dun
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 46990
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:34 am
Location: MO Ozarks

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby dun » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:53 pm

Everything has been covered, but my problems with is AIing in the cold dam weather along wiht heat detecting. Also when wintyering wet cows. Frost bit frozen teats and needing far better quality feed while they are lactating. Calves will only be piucking at a little hay during the early stages and if the spring grass doesn;t come on (like it didn;t so this year) then you are needing to supplement both cows and calves
0 x
"“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.” ― Aristotle

User avatar
Brute 23
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6380
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: South Texas Gulf Coast

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby Brute 23 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:20 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:I feed 3 rolls of hay per cow during the winter. And limit graze oats, rye and ryegrass. My cows look a lot better in the spring then in the fall for sure. And my fertilizer bill is higher during the spring - summer than the fall - winter. This year has been good for the spring calf sales and in 2014 there was a $530.00 dollar difference from my spring calves to fall calves. I'm glad selling in the fall works good for you but, I'm keeping a fall and spring herd. There's no doubt I've done way better with my spring calves than my fall calves the last 5 years.


$530 difference? Fall calves brought $600 and spring calves brought $1130?

Even if it was that much of a spread that does not justify 3 rolls per head and planting winter pasture if you are being honest with yourself about the actual costs of doing that.
0 x
Brimmer Pimpin Ain't Easy

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4515
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: What are the downsides to fall calving?

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:49 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:I feed 3 rolls of hay per cow during the winter. And limit graze oats, rye and ryegrass. My cows look a lot better in the spring then in the fall for sure. And my fertilizer bill is higher during the spring - summer than the fall - winter. This year has been good for the spring calf sales and in 2014 there was a $530.00 dollar difference from my spring calves to fall calves. I'm glad selling in the fall works good for you but, I'm keeping a fall and spring herd. There's no doubt I've done way better with my spring calves than my fall calves the last 5 years.


$530 difference? Fall calves brought $600 and spring calves brought $1130?

Even if it was that much of a spread that does not justify 3 rolls per head and planting winter pasture if you are being honest with yourself about the actual costs of doing that.


You didn't sell any calves in 2015? There was a $1.00+ pound difference between April calves and October calves. It's best for you to do what you think works best for you, and I'll do the same for me. I spent $5k a year feeding the deer before I had cows and I spend $5k a year now feeding cows on the same exact piece of ground. I do well feeding my cows through the winter and so do the deer.
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.


Return to “Beginners Board”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 7 guests