If old genitics

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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Bestoutwest
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Bestoutwest » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:34 am

Hollis wrote:Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F



There's also a lot of people that thought Bernie Madoff would be a really good hedge fund manager....
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Hollis » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:40 pm

:bday:
JWBrahman wrote:
Hollis wrote:Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F


There was a place in California using those same Aberdeen Genetics, Fair Oaks Ranch. Alacowman posted photos and links a while back. They are already out of business.

I've been reading the Purity Thread.

You got a handful of guys shooting each other in the testicles. None of those characters are customers if you catch my drift. The best bull posted on there in a long time was Ed Hawks' herd sire. I wouldn't buy a stick of gum from the purity crowd.


Lol. I agree Ed''s bull looked nice. As for buying something I look ask questions and do my own thing. I think there is more than u and I know going on with all that politics.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Hollis » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:42 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
Hollis wrote:Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F



There's also a lot of people that thought Bernie Madoff would be a really good hedge fund manager....


That's funny. Made me chuckle
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Re: If old genitics

Postby WalnutCrest » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:00 pm

Hollis wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:
Hollis wrote:Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F



There's also a lot of people that thought Bernie Madoff would be a really good hedge fund manager....


That's funny. Made me chuckle


[tangent]

...now this is a story I actually know something about.

A friend of mine is the one who was the primary whistle-blower; he's the one who testified to congress and begged the mafia (Russian, Italian, Chinese, etc.) to not kill him for exposing the fraud.

I actually held copies of the original research / information in my office for years in case "something happened" to my friend before it all came to light. His strict instructions were to never touch it with my bare hands so I'd never leave a fingerprint on it...either use gloves or have my kids pick the papers up.

[/tangent]

Hollis ... you never responded to my comments ...
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Re: If old genitics

Postby SPH » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:33 pm

JWBrahman wrote:
Hollis wrote:Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F


There was a place in California using those same Aberdeen Genetics, Fair Oaks Ranch. Alacowman posted photos and links a while back. They are already out of business.

I've been reading the Purity Thread.

You got a handful of guys shooting each other in the testicles. None of those characters are customers if you catch my drift. The best bull posted on there in a long time was Ed Hawks' herd sire. I wouldn't buy a stick of gum from the purity crowd.


The purity thread on HT needs to be taken with not a grain but a ton of salt because we have yet to see more than hearsay and rumors be proven true as there have not been any published facts or reports to back the claims being made. If they eventually do prove that their claims are true then kudos to those wearing the tin foil hats right now for being the first to make the purity claims but JWBrahman couldn't have said it better when he described it as "a handful of guys shooting each other in the testicles." Anyone who who is thinking of using a Hereford bull right now and that is the first thing they might come across wouldn't touch the breed with a 10 foot pole if they believed all of what they read. By taking the hard stance and trashing the breed like they are they are not only doing others harm but hurting their own reputation as well whether they realize it or not. Why aren't these guys showing up at Hereford events to interact with other breeders or making a call or asking for a 1 on 1 meeting with the CEO to discuss these issues face to face instead of hiding behind a computer keyboard?

I'm not going to ignore that there may be questions of purity in the breed because I think the same could be said for just about any breed when you come across traits or abnormalities that don't make sense but some of the claims that people have knowingly been passing off crossbreds as purebreds and accusing associations of covering it up without any factual evidence is just careless gossip. I probably just opened a can of worms by saying what I just did because there are some guys out there hellbent that there is a conspiracy with breed purity but until there are facts to back the claims I see no good coming out of what they are doing.

The 1 thing I get a chuckle out of are the folks who accuse breed associations and bull studs of ruining breed progress by hyping up EPDs and academia because the bottom line is you as a breeder make your own choices and management decisions and no association or sire stud is going to force you to use genetics that don't fit your program and customer needs. If you fail its because of the decisions YOU made.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby JWBrahman » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:18 am

SPH,
The weird part is you have two Australians, an Englishman, and an Argentinean doing the most whining about American Herefords. Foreign competitors talking trash about America.

Look what happened when Nash Herefords posted photos of functional cattle with good feet, udders and pigment. They were immediately accused of being impure Hereford. Not by someone who has actually purchased and used their cattle, but by a foreign competitor.

How many cattlemen in the United States sell based on purity? Crickets

1) live calf every year
2) calf grows well on minimal inputs
3) carcass has above average yield with choice grade

Everything else is BS marketing, propaganda, and an outright attempt to destroy our reputation in the global marketplace.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Turkeybird » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:47 am

Well spoken!
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Re: If old genitics

Postby farmguy » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:37 am

SPH I could not agree more. I too was banned from HT as I think you were for not going with the flow. Really we have people reporting about the birth of polled Herefords and reporting what neighbors to some people had over 100 years ago for cattle and the condition of their fences were in. Therefore other breeds were introduced over a century ago. To obtain that info must have been a feat, my congratulations. I too have been to cattle events to hear some Hereford breeders bashing the breed. Hmmmm where's the Angus breeder list? As I have said before I had expected other breeders to point out the advantages to their breed and even weaknesses in other breeds. But I did not expect to hear Hereford breeders bashing Herefords. just my thoughts,farmguy.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Bigfoot » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:58 am

Where would I read to catch up on some of this?
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Hollis » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:31 am

WalnutCrest, I would assume u would not use the bull for simple fact u have found what works for u. I think he is similar type as yours. As for cost it would vary between management on the cost of 60 lbs.

And shows don't pay bills as u stated.

We all look at things differently.

F1 always outgrow a straight bred.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby JWBrahman » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:37 am

Bigfoot wrote:Where would I read to catch up on some of this?


Herefordtalk.com

Bigfoot, the Global Elites declared war on America. They have already won and are now in the process of divvying up the spoils.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Hollis » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:42 am

JWBrahman wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:Where would I read to catch up on some of this?


Herefordtalk.com

Bigfoot, the Global Elites declared war on America. They have already won and are now in the process of divvying up the spoils.


Lol.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby SPH » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:07 am

farmguy wrote:SPH I could not agree more. I too was banned from HT as I think you were for not going with the flow. Really we have people reporting about the birth of polled Herefords and reporting what neighbors to some people had over 100 years ago for cattle and the condition of their fences were in. Therefore other breeds were introduced over a century ago. To obtain that info must have been a feat, my congratulations. I too have been to cattle events to hear some Hereford breeders bashing the breed. Hmmmm where's the Angus breeder list? As I have said before I had expected other breeders to point out the advantages to their breed and even weaknesses in other breeds. But I did not expect to hear Hereford breeders bashing Herefords. just my thoughts,farmguy.


You, me, and several other good folks are part of a growing list of banned people on HT. Either fall in line with the agenda and bashing there else you will be censored. I still have never heard a peep from the dictator running that site who banned me without saying a word nor after I tried to contact him on why he did it but I pretty much know why as his silence and the fact he won't even acknowledge me proves the point above because if it was truly a free and open discussion there then guys like you, me, and some others who I still keep in touch with and are still following the discussions there would not have been banned. I actually don't miss being able to post there anymore with the direction it has gone the past year, it has become so negative and hateful and I as have others here commented it basically has become a form of entertainment at this point to see those who are left basically obsess over certain things and rip and turn on each other at times. I found HT several years ago while doing searches on some bulls and really enjoyed it initially and made some great contacts through it but it has become such a place full of negativity and bashing of others I had really scaled back on my posting the months leading up to my banning because no matter how logical or positive you may be in your contributions to a discussion some of those guys will never see that there are always 2 sides to a discussion and just because you repeat the same thing over and over and try to convince that it's true doesn't necessarily make it factual.

Some of these guys wonder why they have a hard time selling their cattle, well who wants to buy from someone that is openly ripping on the very breed they are raising? It would be like a car salesman telling you the vehicle he is trying to sell you all the things he doesn't like about it and saying the brand he sells is dishonest and unethical. Does the Hereford breed have room to improve on things? Of course they do but I don't feel that things are as dire and bleak as some are making them out to be and I feel that the breed has actually come a long ways to correct the problems of the past and the breed is probably as popular with the commercial cattlemen today than it has been in a long time. We've been selling bulls to guys with black cattle who not that long ago probably would never have given a Hereford bull a thought but the proof is in the results that guys are seeing with black baldies that have led to the increase in demand for Hereford bulls and I grow frustrated that some guys are so intent on obsessing over things and bad mouthing the breed and other breeders and people in the process that it is detrimental to the progress and popularity that the breed has going for it right now.

Back to the subject this thread was originally about in the first place. I don't see an issue with someone going back to use some older genetics if they feel that introducing them into their program will either help correct some issues they have or it might add something they need. But at the same time if we all are making progress and improvement in the cattle we breed then the current genetics available today should be useful as well else otherwise you are saying we haven't had any genetic improvements over the past several decades and many generations of breeding over those years and we've been spinning our tires in the mud this whole time. If there was such a thing as a perfect cow we wouldn't have all these different breeds or different types of crosses out there because cattle aren't like cookie cutters where you can make 1 type of cattle work across the board for everyone.
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Hollis » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:44 pm

Very well put Travis
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Re: If old genitics

Postby Bigfoot » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:06 pm

Evidently, the "purity" thread has been removed. My curiosity stemmed from wondering what breed/breeds where mixed with Hereford. If that was infact the direction of the discussion.
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