Changes in a breed over time

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

farmguy
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:20 pm
Location: Minnesota

Changes in a breed over time

Postby farmguy » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:36 pm

I've been on the 4 wheeler spraying thistles and now taking a break. So here are a few observations. I have a Hereford Herd Bull book from 1954 and one from 1973. The 1973 book has 1057 pages and the 1954 book has almost 1000 pages, the last few are missing. The 1954 book has some polled bull ads but the 1973 has none. The 1954 bulls are all very short by our standards with adult bull height a little over waist high from the photos and yes I know people vary in height. In fact there is an article with criteria for selecting and judging cattle that stresses short legs. I believe enough time has passed that I can comment here. There is a large article about the Adams brothers from Iowa in 1954. In it they have a cow with a huge udder and the comment is that this is a good cow with lots of milk. The Adams brothers bulls are horned but their feedlot cattle and cows are not so I assume they have been dehorned.
The 1973 edition shows bulls that on the average appear at least 1 foot taller and much longer legs. One ad mentions the increased size of their bulls, Another ad has a bull almost 2700 lbs. The 1954 book had no bulls with brown around the eyes but the 1973 book had a few. Also now realize these are photos in the 1973 book and this is my opinion but several bulls seem to have a condition referred to as lazy penis. In both books there is ads for Line 1 cattle and Domino in pedigrees. I had the 1954 book for years and my wife purchased the 1973 book for me yesterday and so I thought I would just do a little comparing. These are just my observations from looking at the bull books and if anyone is close I can share them. farmguy
0 x

ALACOWMAN
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 13908
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:16 pm
Location: heart of dixie

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby ALACOWMAN » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:41 pm

That's the extremes the angus took during both those time periods,, now folks want to hit in the middle, which is where they should be....
0 x
Santa Claus, the ultimate Yankee....

User avatar
dun
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 46985
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:34 am
Location: MO Ozarks

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby dun » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:45 pm

I've been told that the lazy prepuce (penis) is some how connected to the polled genes
0 x
"“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.” ― Aristotle

elkwc
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:21 pm

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby elkwc » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:23 pm

dun wrote:I've been told that the lazy prepuce (penis) is some how connected to the polled genes


It has been brought to my attention that the LP syndrome is a polled and brahma issue. I did a search and found some info. I will also include a little of what I found. One study says that Brahmas, Polled Herefords and Angus are the most susceptible to this.

abnormalities

• Lacerations of the prepuce -- Prepuce or sheath lacerations are more common in Brahman-influenced breeds due to their pendulous sheath and large preputial opening. These bulls often develop swelling and eversion of the prepuce from the natural trauma to their prepuce when breeding.

Polled bulls are especially at risk because the retractor prepucial muscle is either absent or very small in homozygous polled animals. Once the prepuce is enlarged with fluid, it hangs out (prolapsed prepuce) and is susceptible to laceration. Most bulls with lacerations of the prepuce can be treated and returned to service.

Prevention of prepuce lacerations centers on purchase of bulls that do not have pendulous sheaths. A short, modified version of the American Beefmaster Breeders Association sheath scoring system follows:

1. Very clean and tight

2. Clean

3. Average

4. Somewhat pendulous

5. Pendulous




I will say udders and teats have improved greatly in the last 35 years. Some still don't have enough milk flow but overall some good progress has been made in those areas. Not as much in muscling, color pattern, LP syndrome and other important areas to a commercial producer.
Last edited by elkwc on Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

elkwc
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:21 pm

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby elkwc » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:24 pm

farmguy wrote:I've been on the 4 wheeler spraying thistles and now taking a break. So here are a few observations. I have a Hereford Herd Bull book from 1954 and one from 1973. The 1973 book has 1057 pages and the 1954 book has almost 1000 pages, the last few are missing. The 1954 book has some polled bull ads but the 1973 has none. The 1954 bulls are all very short by our standards with adult bull height a little over waist high from the photos and yes I know people vary in height. In fact there is an article with criteria for selecting and judging cattle that stresses short legs. I believe enough time has passed that I can comment here. There is a large article about the Adams brothers from Iowa in 1954. In it they have a cow with a huge udder and the comment is that this is a good cow with lots of milk. The Adams brothers bulls are horned but their feedlot cattle and cows are not so I assume they have been dehorned.
The 1973 edition shows bulls that on the average appear at least 1 foot taller and much longer legs. One ad mentions the increased size of their bulls, Another ad has a bull almost 2700 lbs. The 1954 book had no bulls with brown around the eyes but the 1973 book had a few. Also now realize these are photos in the 1973 book and this is my opinion but several bulls seem to have a condition referred to as lazy penis. In both books there is ads for Line 1 cattle and Domino in pedigrees. I had the 1954 book for years and my wife purchased the 1973 book for me yesterday and so I thought I would just do a little comparing. These are just my observations from looking at the bull books and if anyone is close I can share them. farmguy


I have ten herd books from the early 60's to the mid 80's. By looking through them a person can see the changes both good and bad.
0 x

UG
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby UG » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:23 pm

The American Hereford Association and the American Polled Hereford Association were separate associations for many years, until they "merged" in 1995. So it makes sense that there were no ads for polled bulls in the 1973 magazine, and actually a bit surprised that there were a few listings of bulls in the 1954 issue, as I thought the two Hereford associations were both in existence long before '54.

Regarding the change in size, during much of the 40's, 50's, and 60's (and possibly earlier than the 40's) much of the cattle industry was chasing smaller framed cattle. A common term for small framed steers was "baby beef". This was common in all breeds, not just Hereford. Starting in the late 60's some much larger framed European breeds like Simmental, Chianina, etc., were imported into the US (primarily via semen initially). These larger framed "Exotic" cattle had incredible growth in comparison to the small framed Angus, Herefords, and Shorthorns. Many commercial producers started buying these Exotic influenced bulls to increase weaning weight. The traditional breeds of the time (AN, HF, SH) were losing market share very quickly and recognized that they needed to increase frame size and performance to maintain their business. In general, breeders of these breeds chased frame score and performance, and in a relatively short amount of time changed the average frame score of their breeds significantly. This is very apparent by comparing photos of grand champion bulls in the 50's and 60's to grand champion bulls of the 70's and 80's. Very interesting times in the cattle seedstock industry.
0 x

Carlos F.
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:15 pm
Location: Los Toldos, Argentina

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby Carlos F. » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:27 pm

The rapid change in frame score was accomplished by introducing "Exotic" germplasm into the traditional breeds. And simultaneosly lots of problems like genetic defects, birth weights, etc. Now we have H, SH and AN all mixed up.
0 x

User avatar
Rafter S
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3859
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:13 am
Location: Grimes County, TX

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby Rafter S » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:47 pm

Several years ago I acquired some cattle magazines from the 30's and 40's. I remember seeing an ad for Shorthorns in one of them. It said their cattle would "Shorten the legs of Aberdeen Angus."
0 x
"I spent half my money on wine, women, and song.....and like a fool I squandered the rest." - Benny Hill

User avatar
houstoncutter
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2093
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: S.E. Texas

Re: Changes in a breed over time

Postby houstoncutter » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:20 pm

Carlos F. wrote:The rapid change in frame score was accomplished by introducing "Exotic" germplasm into the traditional breeds. And simultaneosly lots of problems like genetic defects, birth weights, etc. Now we have H, SH and AN all mixed up.


Carlos is that the nice way of saying , Angus and Hereford are crossbreed and not pure
0 x


Return to “Breeds Board”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Post Oak, Yahoo [Bot] and 5 guests