Blaze Face Simm Bull

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ClinchValley
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Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ClinchValley » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:47 am

Anyone have experience with black Simm bulls? Opinions? I've been reading they aren't giant calf makers like they used to be.

I have a black blaze face simm bull that came from a black sim cow I bought last year. He's built alright IMO. Just shipped his Momma off. I'm debating keeping him to use next year or shipping him off too. I was just curious about the breed stereotypes nowadays. Old timers around have told me not a good idea. But the guy i got them from said he's not pulled a calf in a long time. He runs Simm cows and has used only Simm bulls until this year.

It'd be convenient is where my mind keeps going back to. He's got a half sister here and that's it. He would be new blood. And his Dam was a perfect cow in build and temperament. Was around 1500 lbs. And lengthy…

He hit the ground on this farm. Was an average size calf to what I'm used to. Sire was a registered solid red Simm bull, well built. Weighed 1900 if i recall correctly.


These two pictures are from early June.
Image

Image

Would you put him on a trailer?
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Bright Raven
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:08 am

I raise Simmentals. My calves average about 88 pounds at birth. Range is about 70 to 100. The cows rarely require assistance at birth.

Regarding the bull pictured. He may be young and will fill out but at this point in the pictures he is not deep and heavy muscled like the breeders desire. His markings are very attractive. You might try him and see how he does. You did not provide his pedigree, age or what your objectives are.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ALACOWMAN » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:13 am

He will be a red carrier, why did you sell his mammy
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ClinchValley
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ClinchValley » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:55 pm

In that photo, he is about 6 months old. And not sure if it affects perception or not, but I was standing uphill from him in that photo. I will have to try to get a new photo. It has been pouring the rain today. Forecasted for the entire week. Yay. My photography skills are lacking, but hopefully can get a decent picture.

I do not know the breeding history other than seeing his sire/dam. His sire was red. So I assumed he would throw some reds. Which isn't a problem. We have a lot of Limo/Charolais in our cows.

The mammy had some age on her. I shouldn't have bought her to be honest. No lesson is free, right.

We have mostly Limo/Char cows. There is a bit of Gelbvieh, but not much. The cattle are starting to get some age on them. I've added a few Simm cows. We have retained heifers the last two years.

I guess the goal is to make the herd younger and increase numbers. I need to increase heterosis. Which means a Simm bull would have us going backwards. We used an angus bull this year, but he isn't working out. He has an aggressive approach to protecting his herd. He herds them a little too hard. Maybe i should find a different angus bull.

I know what ya mean about try him and see how he does. But a year is a lot of time to stand still instead of get better. He was a thought. Mostly a thought of convenience i suppose.

ALACOWMAN - How can you tell he will be a red carrier? For future reference.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby cowgirl8 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:20 pm

Todays sims are not yesterdays sims. If I sell you a sim/angus, you'll be getting old blood sim and you could figure some whopper calves. New sims today are basically angus.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Muddy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:39 pm

cowgirl8 wrote:Todays sims are not yesterdays sims. If I sell you a sim/angus, you'll be getting old blood sim and you could figure some whopper calves. New sims today are basically angus.

:roll: and what color is your current "SimAngus" bulls?
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby cowgirl8 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:53 pm

Muddy wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:Todays sims are not yesterdays sims. If I sell you a sim/angus, you'll be getting old blood sim and you could figure some whopper calves. New sims today are basically angus.

:roll: and what color is your current "SimAngus" bulls?

Our sims are basically angus now, so black, black w/f. I have one that is red. But they are not from the watered down sims of today. Our sims from yesteryear were monsters with a lot of chrome, you should know that. As time goes on though, we've turned them into angus. But get a calf from one of our last old school sims and use it for breeding, don't use them on small cows or heifers, you'll be sorry.
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ClinchValley
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ClinchValley » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:06 pm

Is it at this point still considered a continental breed? Or british? Or a hybrid of the two? I'm looking for heterosis, in the end.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Muddy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:15 pm

ClinchValley wrote:Is it at this point still considered a continental breed? Or british? Or a hybrid of the two? I'm looking for heterosis, in the end.

Just ignore cowgirl8. Todays Simmentals isn't Angus, sure they're black but they're genetically different from Black Angus and they should be able to give you heterosis in your cattle.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:50 pm

Muddy wrote:
ClinchValley wrote:Is it at this point still considered a continental breed? Or british? Or a hybrid of the two? I'm looking for heterosis, in the end.

Just ignore cowgirl8. Todays Simmentals isn't Angus, sure they're black but they're genetically different from Black Angus and they should be able to give you heterosis in your cattle.


Muddy is right. I think it was Lucky but not sure who posted a reference to DNA tests of the different breeds. Simmentals are no more polluted than the other breeds.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ALACOWMAN » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:45 pm

ClinchValley wrote:In that photo, he is about 6 months old. And not sure if it affects perception or not, but I was standing uphill from him in that photo. I will have to try to get a new photo. It has been pouring the rain today. Forecasted for the entire week. Yay. My photography skills are lacking, but hopefully can get a decent picture.

I do not know the breeding history other than seeing his sire/dam. His sire was red. So I assumed he would throw some reds. Which isn't a problem. We have a lot of Limo/Charolais in our cows.

The mammy had some age on her. I shouldn't have bought her to be honest. No lesson is free, right.

We have mostly Limo/Char cows. There is a bit of Gelbvieh, but not much. The cattle are starting to get some age on them. I've added a few Simm cows. We have retained heifers the last two years.

I guess the goal is to make the herd younger and increase numbers. I need to increase heterosis. Which means a Simm bull would have us going backwards. We used an angus bull this year, but he isn't working out. He has an aggressive approach to protecting his herd. He herds them a little too hard. Maybe i should find a different angus bull.

I know what ya mean about try him and see how he does. But a year is a lot of time to stand still instead of get better. He was a thought. Mostly a thought of convenience i suppose.

ALACOWMAN - How can you tell he will be a red carrier? For future reference.
his sire being red will put him at 50 percent for the red gene.. Do you know if the momma was homozygous black? If she has red in her background? By that I mean recent breeding...nothing wrong with her being old... I rather have one out of a old gal..then one that played out early...
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Ol' 243 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:52 pm

Muddy wrote:
ClinchValley wrote:Is it at this point still considered a continental breed? Or british? Or a hybrid of the two? I'm looking for heterosis, in the end.

Just ignore cowgirl8. Todays Simmentals isn't Angus, sure they're black but they're genetically different from Black Angus and they should be able to give you heterosis in your cattle.


I'm surprised a guru like yourself would ignore such words of wisdom from an expert like CG8. You might wanna do some reading on some of her other post, she's a wealth of knowledge.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ALACOWMAN » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:53 pm

ClinchValley wrote:Is it at this point still considered a continental breed? Or british? Or a hybrid of the two? I'm looking for heterosis, in the end.

You can look at him and tell he's simi.....once he's crossed { a F1} simangus he's really considered neither. Takes a few years of breeding in one direction and selection to bring back to one or the other....don't expect to much heterosis from him if your going back on simm cows...
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby cowgirl8 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:57 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Muddy wrote:
ClinchValley wrote:Is it at this point still considered a continental breed? Or british? Or a hybrid of the two? I'm looking for heterosis, in the end.

Just ignore cowgirl8. Todays Simmentals isn't Angus, sure they're black but they're genetically different from Black Angus and they should be able to give you heterosis in your cattle.


Muddy is right. I think it was Lucky but not sure who posted a reference to DNA tests of the different breeds. Simmentals are no more polluted than the other breeds.

Not sure why there are arguments about Hereford, horned, polled, black....they all look like Hereford.
What makes it different is, we use to raise and show sims. Doesn't make me an expert, don't claim to be. But if a polled or black Hereford is not a Hereford, then a solid black angus looking cow isnt a sim... I don't think any of you know what a sim looked like in the 90s.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:08 pm

cowgirl8 wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Muddy wrote:Just ignore cowgirl8. Todays Simmentals isn't Angus, sure they're black but they're genetically different from Black Angus and they should be able to give you heterosis in your cattle.


Muddy is right. I think it was Lucky but not sure who posted a reference to DNA tests of the different breeds. Simmentals are no more polluted than the other breeds.

Not sure why there are arguments about Hereford, horned, polled, black....they all look like Hereford.
What makes it different is, we use to raise and show sims. Doesn't make me an expert, don't claim to be. But if a polled or black Hereford is not a Hereford, then a solid black angus looking cow isnt a sim... I don't think any of you know what a sim looked like in the 90s.


The genotype is a better measurement of impurity than phenotype. Someone on here posted a report based on DNA analysis that concluded that Simmentals retain 99% of their original genotype. I thought it might have been Lucky. What was interesting, was that Black Angus also retained a high level of their original purity.
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