Blaze Face Simm Bull

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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Bright Raven
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:40 am

Ol' 243 wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Ol' 243 wrote:
Where ya been BR? Finally the other 50% of the knowledge on this board showed up. You need to get in every thread earlier, that way we don't gotta learn everything from a chick.


I was. I posted the first response. It got side tracked after that.


Sorry, I musta skipped right over it. :lol:



Don't do that. I put a lot of effort into this forum. :cboy:
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Ol' 243
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Ol' 243 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:44 am

You ever just read someones stuff, and it makes you feel smarter?
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:46 am

Ol' 243 wrote:You ever just read someones stuff, and it makes you feel smarter?


Never! :lol:
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ClinchValley » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:50 am

Yall really are funny as be nice.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ALACOWMAN » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:18 am

cowgirl8 wrote:
ALACOWMAN wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:I stand my by opinion. As a sim person, todays sims are not sims, they are angus.....
they are dang if he don't look like a sim....https://www.google.com/search?q=simment ... hlZkHTJbXM:

There goes the googling expertise... at least you guys are consistent...lol
well I should have drawn a picture, a stick figure perhaps.. Something you could relate to....
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Andyva
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Andyva » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:29 am

Today's sims aren't Angus. Angus don't normally throw giant calves, red, horns, and chrome. They might look the same, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they used Angus to add black hair, but that is the only thing that changed because of Angus genetics. Everything else is just a random mutation that has been selected for to make them look like Angus.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ClinchValley » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:32 am

Andy, are you saying you have experience with black Simms and giant calves?
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Gators Rule » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:13 pm

cowgirl8 wrote:
ClinchValley wrote:I knew better than to ask black Simm questions.

I like black sims, I just believe they should be called something else. I have hundreds of sim/angus...
You want to start something, say you like polled black Herefords....lol


LOL lady, you change directions faster than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs!
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby cowgirl8 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:08 am

Gators Rule wrote:
cowgirl8 wrote:
ClinchValley wrote:I knew better than to ask black Simm questions.

I like black sims, I just believe they should be called something else. I have hundreds of sim/angus...
You want to start something, say you like polled black Herefords....lol


LOL lady, you change directions faster than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs!

Never ever said I did not like todays black sims, said they aren't sims.. They should be called something else.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Muddy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:48 am

So much hypocrisy in here
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby ClinchValley » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:52 am

He is going to hit the trailer next week. I'd have to say, i'm slowly figuring out what a good animal is built like. This little feller is certainly pinched up. Went to take a picture, then decided no need.

Thanks for the lesson folks.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Lucky_P » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:02 am

Everybody keeps pointing at Angus as the source of black hide... but y'all are disregarding all the other black cows that might be way back behind animals in a breed that allows 'breeding up', with an open herdbook.
My first 'black' Simmental crosses - bred back in the late 80s - got their black haircoat from Holsteins and a little black Jersey-cross cow. For decades, I had black SM-influenced cattle with little to no Angus anywhere back in their ancestry.
There was a large dairy in the county where I practiced that was owned by a Simmental breeders corporation that was using the HO cows as recips and running SM bulls for cleanup... quite a few black SMxHO calves came out of that deal, and probably made their way into the SM herdbook as halfbloods...with no Angus in the equation

Black Simmentals are Simmentals, not Angus.
Cg8, I can show you photos of 100% fullblood Fleckvieh Simmentals that are solid red...not a speck of white. You can get there with selective breeding. Just like the SM breeders have addressed CED, BW, frame score, etc. ... selecting for it in making one's breeding choices.
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby cowgirl8 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:15 am

Our first sim show heifer was solid red...
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:23 am

Lucky_P wrote:Everybody keeps pointing at Angus as the source of black hide... but y'all are disregarding all the other black cows that might be way back behind animals in a breed that allows 'breeding up', with an open herdbook.
My first 'black' Simmental crosses - bred back in the late 80s - got their black haircoat from Holsteins and a little black Jersey-cross cow. For decades, I had black SM-influenced cattle with little to no Angus anywhere back in their ancestry.
There was a large dairy in the county where I practiced that was owned by a Simmental breeders corporation that was using the HO cows as recips and running SM bulls for cleanup... quite a few black SMxHO calves came out of that deal, and probably made their way into the SM herdbook as halfbloods...with no Angus in the equation

Black Simmentals are Simmentals, not Angus.
Cg8, I can show you photos of 100% fullblood Fleckvieh Simmentals that are solid red...not a speck of white. You can get there with selective breeding. Just like the SM breeders have addressed CED, BW, frame score, etc. ... selecting for it in making one's breeding choices.


Exactly! Selective breeding is a powerful tool.

Lucky: The other issue. There was a post, I thought it was one you posted, that referenced DNA "fingerprinting" of beef breeds. The comment was made that DNA testing demonstrated that Simmental retain essentially all of their old line genome. Do you know a reference for that?
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Re: Blaze Face Simm Bull

Postby cbcr » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:48 am

It is hard to tell how much other breeds can influence a resulting animal.

We have several members that have bred up to purebred (87.5%) Montbeliarde. The Montbeliarde breed from France (which is related to the Simmental Breed, but is bred today for milk production), has several bulls that have a small percentage of Holstein genetics. France with the largest population of the breed, has the largest data-bank of genomic testing information, (which they won't share). The Montbeliarde is a Red White Faced breed and most of the Holsteins that were used to breed up from in the US were Black and White. What France has told us that they have found with genomics, is that if a Montbeliarde animal has Black hair that it possesses more traits coming from the Holstein breed. We do have some members with animals that are the 87.5% or more Montbeliarde that are still Black White Faced.

With this information, and the Simmental being for the most part a Red White Faced animal, when crossed with the Angus, for the black hair color, and breeding those that are black back up to purebred, would some of this same influence be taking place?

Also, we register US born Black Charolais. These animals are 32/32 % Charolais. It has to do with the the "red" gene and color of some Charolais and how they are bred and crossed. The Black Charolais is not eligible to be registered with the American Charolais Association.
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