Bugs in feed?

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farmerjan
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby farmerjan » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:25 pm

We also use diatomaceous earth in our feed. When I worked at the historic grist mill DE was used religiously in any stored grain. It is not poisonous, it does not cause any kind of reaction in people, and is routinely used by many places to help keep some of the weevils from developing in wheat. Had talked to a couple of other mill owners/operators over the years and they say it is standard practice to use it. It is also used in large grain elevator storage.
If it had bugs from the feed store, I would also return it. I don't think that little bit will have hurt the calves.
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:14 am

Image
I need to try some diatomaceous earth, or whatever its called. The cows ate the feed fine this morning bugs and all.
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby ClinchValley » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:41 pm

I found two birds in two different sacks last year.
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby Craig Miller » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:40 pm

De is Supposed to be a good wormer too.
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby Lucky_P » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:27 am

Craig.
DE has never killed a worm in an animal. Any and all claims that it is an effective dewormer are bogus, with no scientific support.
There is some documented evidence that if you could formulate a ration containing about 5% DE - and get the animals to consume it - that there may be diminished larval survival inside the fecal pellets/pats - just due to the dessicating effects of the DE.
However, I've also seen documented 'outbreaks' of urolithiasis (bladder stones causing urinary obstruction) in feedlot steers that had DE added to their ration as an 'organic dewormer'; they didn't take into account the mineral composition of the DE... it was a trainwreck.
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby Craig Miller » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:36 am

Lucky_P wrote:Craig.
DE has never killed a worm in an animal. Any and all claims that it is an effective dewormer are bogus, with no scientific support.
There is some documented evidence that if you could formulate a ration containing about 5% DE - and get the animals to consume it - that there may be diminished larval survival inside the fecal pellets/pats - just due to the dessicating effects of the DE.
However, I've also seen documented 'outbreaks' of urolithiasis (bladder stones causing urinary obstruction) in feedlot steers that had DE added to their ration as an 'organic dewormer'; they didn't take into account the mineral composition of the DE... it was a trainwreck.


You are correct. I have no scientific proof. I have talked with people who have done fecal samples before and after to prove it in goats. I did not see the test results personally though, only what they told me. I do know that it will remove bugs from feed. I did a scientific study of that. :D
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby Lucky_P » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:14 am

I'll admit that DE may have some potential against insects/bugs OUTSIDE the animal... but the whole premise behind folks using it as a 'dewormer' is bogus... 'the sharp edges of the crystals will 'lacerate' the worms' cuticle, causing them to dessicate and die'... NOT.
For one thing, the parasites may or may not be out in the lumen of the gut; but if they are, they're in a fluid environment... imagine yourself, if you will, as the worm, floating in a swimming pool with floating razor blades in it... maybe one might nick you once in a while, but most will just touch, bounce off and float on past... but even if they did nick you... you're surrounded by a fluid medium - why would you 'dry out' and die? Granted, if you put the worms between two boards, sprinkled them with DE and rubbed the boards back and forth, it would probably damage the worms... but not just passing passively through the GI tract... Even in fecal pats/pellets, at the level that most folks are able to get animals to consume it, DE probably has minimal, if any adverse effect on larval survival.

Most all the testimonials about DE (and almost always from folks who want to sell you some!) make claims of 'brighter eyes, shinier coats, run faster, jump higher', etc. If they do any fecal egg counts, they usually don't have a control group to compare to(are lower numbers significantly lower, and would control animals also have lower numbers on that given day? ...and they don't take any other management features, like improved plane of nutrition, etc., into consideration.
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby wlamarparmer » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:29 am

Hey folks, listen to Lucky P., he DVM. gives good advice, and basically has no dog in this hunt other than
helping people. As 45 yrs small animal vet, and enjoying this board, Milk Maid and Lucky P my most respected.
Disagree if you feel need, but this this guy has posted m ore deceased animal than all us us combined ever see in our
lifetime. Respect him, trust him. He knows of what he speaks.
Lamar
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:40 am

wlamarparmer wrote:Hey folks, listen to Lucky P., he DVM. gives good advice, and basically has no dog in this hunt other than
helping people. As 45 yrs small animal vet, and enjoying this board, Milk Maid and Lucky P my most respected.
Disagree if you feel need, but this this guy has posted m ore deceased animal than all us us combined ever see in our
lifetime. Respect him, trust him. He knows of what he speaks.
Lamar

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Craig Miller
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Re: Bugs in feed?

Postby Craig Miller » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:13 pm

Lucky_P wrote:I'll admit that DE may have some potential against insects/bugs OUTSIDE the animal... but the whole premise behind folks using it as a 'dewormer' is bogus... 'the sharp edges of the crystals will 'lacerate' the worms' cuticle, causing them to dessicate and die'... NOT.
For one thing, the parasites may or may not be out in the lumen of the gut; but if they are, they're in a fluid environment... imagine yourself, if you will, as the worm, floating in a swimming pool with floating razor blades in it... maybe one might nick you once in a while, but most will just touch, bounce off and float on past... but even if they did nick you... you're surrounded by a fluid medium - why would you 'dry out' and die? Granted, if you put the worms between two boards, sprinkled them with DE and rubbed the boards back and forth, it would probably damage the worms... but not just passing passively through the GI tract... Even in fecal pats/pellets, at the level that most folks are able to get animals to consume it, DE probably has minimal, if any adverse effect on larval survival.

Most all the testimonials about DE (and almost always from folks who want to sell you some!) make claims of 'brighter eyes, shinier coats, run faster, jump higher', etc. If they do any fecal egg counts, they usually don't have a control group to compare to(are lower numbers significantly lower, and would control animals also have lower numbers on that given day? ...and they don't take any other management features, like improved plane of nutrition, etc., into consideration.


I wasn't trying to argue with you before. I hope it didn't look that way in type. What you're saying makes sense. That explains how they are getting the results they are.
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