Looking for a direction

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:14 pm

The modern Flecks or Simms are generally easy calving - but like any bull (Angus, RA, Hfd, etc) each one needs to be analyzed for Calving Ease. No one can make a blank statement and say, "breed to an Angus (or Hereford or ??) and you won't have any trouble calving". Right now, the Simmental breed calves within 1% of the Angus breed and easier than the Hereford. AVERAGE for the breeds. Each bull is different.
Holsteins "generally" have higher birth weights; Angus "generally" have lighter birthweights - so they may have the genetics for heavy, light or in-between. Remember, the cow has just as much to do with the birth weight as the bull.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby cow pollinater » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:18 pm

If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Dave » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:55 pm

Earlier someone mentioned longevity. Back about 2004 I raise some Holstein/Simm cross heifer calves. I figured to breed them to a Angus and keep those heifers. Long story short by 2010 they were all gone and so were their heifers. Not any one single reason that they were gone but collectively they didn't work. And I live in a pretty easy environment for those cattle. I thought it was a good theory but it sure didn't work for me.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Cada22 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:06 pm

cow pollinater wrote:If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.


What is your opinion on the best way to do that?
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Cada22 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:08 pm

Dave wrote:Earlier someone mentioned longevity. Back about 2004 I raise some Holstein/Simm cross heifer calves. I figured to breed them to a Angus and keep those heifers. Long story short by 2010 they were all gone and so were their heifers. Not any one single reason that they were gone but collectively they didn't work. And I live in a pretty easy environment for those cattle. I thought it was a good theory but it sure didn't work for me.


If not any one single reason, what were the problems you ran into? I know body condition while raising the calf is one, but what else stood out?
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Son of Butch » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:34 pm

cow pollinater wrote:If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.

1/2 Holstein will provide plenty of frame and milk, so something short, wide and low, low milk.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Cada22 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:59 am

Son of Butch wrote:
cow pollinater wrote:If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.

1/2 Holstein will provide plenty of frame and milk, so something short, wide and low, low milk.


What breed would I be looking at to accomplish that?
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby cow pollinater » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:19 am

Cada22 wrote:
cow pollinater wrote:If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.


What is your opinion on the best way to do that?

The right hereford or limousin would be my pick but if you AI you can find a bull from just about any breed that will work.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:18 am

I like traditional black baldy approach.
Sheyenne and Tested A250 are 2 moderate milk calving ease Herefords at Select Sires followed by angus or limo.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Cada22 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:46 pm

Son of Butch wrote:I like traditional black baldy approach.
Sheyenne and Tested A250 are 2 moderate milk calving ease Herefords at Select Sires followed by angus or limo.


What milk numbers do we consider moderate?
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:03 pm

25 or less imo
herefords produce about 20% less milk than angus... so in angus 21 or less
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby boondocks » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:30 am

Son of Butch wrote:25 or less imo
herefords produce about 20% less milk than angus... so in angus 21 or less


I don't want to derail the thread but wanted to jump and in say thank you for the way you use an objective, data-driven approach. It is very helpful to us newbies. Seriously--thanks! You dive into the numbers in a way that sometimes challenges me but I learn something.
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Dave » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:06 am

Cada22 wrote:
Dave wrote:Earlier someone mentioned longevity. Back about 2004 I raise some Holstein/Simm cross heifer calves. I figured to breed them to a Angus and keep those heifers. Long story short by 2010 they were all gone and so were their heifers. Not any one single reason that they were gone but collectively they didn't work. And I live in a pretty easy environment for those cattle. I thought it was a good theory but it sure didn't work for me.


If not any one single reason, what were the problems you ran into? I know body condition while raising the calf is one, but what else stood out?


It has been a few years back so I don't remember all of them. Mostly I remember the wrecks. I know one I had to pull a HUGE calf out of her, she never did get up. One that I pulled a calf out of was fine for about 5 weeks and then just dead one day. There were several that didn't breed back. I know the last one I had got lumpy jaw. I think calving and fertility were the biggest issues. The Holstein in them would show up. I remember one of that second generation who was pure black and bred to an Angus bull had a calf that was marked like and looked like a pure bred Holstein. Took a beating when that calf sold.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:19 pm

"The Holstein in them would show up. I remember one of that second generation who was pure black and bred to an Angus bull had a calf that was marked like and looked like a pure bred Holstein. Took a beating when that calf sold."
Guarantee that calf was NOT sired by an Angus. Maybe an Angus cross (Holstein or Simmental). You cannot get body white unless BOTH parents carry the spotting gene. NO registered ANGUS carries the spotting gene - unless theirs something else in his wood pile!!!
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Re: Looking for a direction

Postby kd4au » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:51 pm

Cada22 wrote:What kind of longevity did you see out of the Angus/Holstein cross?

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.
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