Pinkeye

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Bright Raven
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Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:45 pm

I did not have a case this year. I used an autogenous vaccine.

I was talking with Fire Sweep's embryologist last week. He wants to remain announimous but he confided that he has no faith in any vaccine for the genus Moraxella, not even an autogenous vaccine.

He was a practicing vet and said an animal can have pinkeye in its right eye. It recovers and 3 weeks later has pinkeye in the left eye. He said if the bovine can develop immunity to Moraxella, then it should have occurred during the first eye infection. I said true but what if the second infection is a different strain of Moraxella. He said possible but in his opinion there is NO effective vaccine for the genus Moraxella which is the most common genus involved in producing pinkeye in cattle.

He said don't tell anyone he said that because he doesn't want all the drug companies calling him. So his name shall remain announimous.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Till-Hill » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:36 pm

Vets around here are about 50/50 on that topic as well.

I have listened to one meeting where speaker told us to get rid of our worm problems (using Safegaurd and pour-ons) together and using at the right time and he says you won't have a pinkeye problem.

Every year I have gotten Safegaurd in cows after a killing frost then few weeks after green up I usually use Safegaurd again but this year they were going thru chute so I used Cydectin.

Haven't had any trouble. 1 cow of 35. 0 calves. Everyone else is battling it around me..........
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby angus9259 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:54 pm

I used to get one case a year or so - mostly in the winter. Seemed like they were getting worse and worse. Wouldn't respond to LA200 any more and had to go to Draxxin.

I decided to buy a Duramax. No pinkeye this year! Not sure what it is about the bowtie but I'm not asking questions! I'm a believer. First year in 20 I haven't had a case.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby TCRanch » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:16 pm

angus9259 wrote:I used to get one case a year or so - mostly in the winter. Seemed like they were getting worse and worse. Wouldn't respond to LA200 any more and had to go to Draxxin.

I decided to buy a Duramax. No pinkeye this year! Not sure what it is about the bowtie but I'm not asking questions! I'm a believer. First year in 20 I haven't had a case.


If you're getting pinkeye primarily in the winter is it possible it's nothing more than eye abrasions due to stemmy bales, dried forage, etc? Only asking because we do vaccinate and the last time we treated for (maybe?) pinkeye was in November a few years ago and we had just put out bales with a lot of johnsongrass in them (junk). Cows wouldn't eat much of the bales (subsequent bedding), treated as usual with LA300 and haven't had a problem since.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby angus9259 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:55 pm

TCRanch wrote:
angus9259 wrote:I used to get one case a year or so - mostly in the winter. Seemed like they were getting worse and worse. Wouldn't respond to LA200 any more and had to go to Draxxin.

I decided to buy a Duramax. No pinkeye this year! Not sure what it is about the bowtie but I'm not asking questions! I'm a believer. First year in 20 I haven't had a case.


If you're getting pinkeye primarily in the winter is it possible it's nothing more than eye abrasions due to stemmy bales, dried forage, etc? Only asking because we do vaccinate and the last time we treated for (maybe?) pinkeye was in November a few years ago and we had just put out bales with a lot of johnsongrass in them (junk). Cows wouldn't eat much of the bales (subsequent bedding), treated as usual with LA300 and haven't had a problem since.


Yes, I reckon the abrasion begins with the hay. I don't actually think it's the chevy sitting in the drive either that has my pinkeye at bay - or the vaccination protocol I use (which I question myself). I think the reason I don't have pinkeye this year is 1 part having just short grass around from lack of rain and 2 parts dumb luck.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:22 am

Till-Hill wrote:Vets around here are about 50/50 on that topic as well.

I have listened to one meeting where speaker told us to get rid of our worm problems (using Safegaurd and pour-ons) together and using at the right time and he says you won't have a pinkeye problem.

Every year I have gotten Safegaurd in cows after a killing frost then few weeks after green up I usually use Safegaurd again but this year they were going thru chute so I used Cydectin.

Haven't had any trouble. 1 cow of 35. 0 calves. Everyone else is battling it around me..........


Till,
I have always been aggressive in worming my cows. It was not until I vaccinated with an autogenous vaccine that I stopped having pinkeye. Did they indicate what connection there is between worms and pinkeye?
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Lucky_P » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:57 am

Knock on wood... had two cases in baby calves(<2 wks old) at turnout back in late March; not another case all summer long.
Treated 30-40 last summer.
I do not vaccinate - and have serious doubts about whether it works or not. I wouldn't be afraid to put my name out there on that - drug companies will not be calling me - or Firesweep's repro guy.
I have veterinary colleagues who, last year, had clients who'd vaccinated with both a commercial Moraxella bacterin and two doses of their own autogenous Moraxella bacterin, containing upwards of 10 M.bovis/M.ovis/M.bovoculi isolates, and still experienced trainwrecks.
But, if you think it's helped your situation... keep right on doing what you're doing.

I'm not even certain that I'm buying into the long-held tenet that M. bovis (and its ilk) are spread from cow to cow by face flies, spreading the disease. I've seen plenty of cases during times of year when there are no face flies around.

And IBR virus... maybe somebody, somewhere, sometime in the distant past managed to isolate or detect IBR in an animal with pinkeye, but we've tested thousands and have yet to find it. I'll still test for IBR on submitted samples when a vet requests it, but I'll bet them a Coke that the result will be negative.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:02 am

Lucky_P wrote:Knock on wood... had two cases in baby calves(<2 wks old) at turnout back in late March; not another case all summer long.
Treated 30-40 last summer.
I do not vaccinate - and have serious doubts about whether it works or not. I wouldn't be afraid to put my name out there on that - drug companies will not be calling me - or Firesweep's repro guy.
I have veterinary colleagues who, last year, had clients who'd vaccinated with both a commercial Moraxella bacterin and two doses of their own autogenous Moraxella bacterin, containing upwards of 10 M.bovis/M.ovis/M.bovoculi isolates, and still experienced trainwrecks.
But, if you think it's helped your situation... keep right on doing what you're doing.

I'm not even certain that I'm buying into the long-held tenet that M. bovis (and its ilk) are spread from cow to cow by face flies, spreading the disease. I've seen plenty of cases during times of year when there are no face flies around.

And IBR virus... maybe somebody, somewhere, sometime in the distant past managed to isolate or detect IBR in an animal with pinkeye, but we've tested thousands and have yet to find it. I'll still test for IBR on submitted samples when a vet requests it, but I'll bet them a Coke that the result will be negative.


Lucky, her repro guy told me he was giving a presentation and stated that a popular vaccine was ineffective. He said 3 drug companies called him within 48 hours. He said it is easier to simply let people think what they want.

Her repro guy is a classic skeptic. I will not mention a couple of his comments or the whole board here would collapse.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Nesikep » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:10 am

Lucky_P, I would think that common rubbing posts, etc could be a vector for it when flies aren't around.

Here, when we bought our cows, a few had pinkeye, especially the weaned calves... It took us a while to get it under control, but by spring it was gone, never had a case of it since (26 years). I'm not sure about other places around here, but I don't think they have any problems either
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Till-Hill » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:31 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Till-Hill wrote:Vets around here are about 50/50 on that topic as well.

I have listened to one meeting where speaker told us to get rid of our worm problems (using Safegaurd and pour-ons) together and using at the right time and he says you won't have a pinkeye problem.

Every year I have gotten Safegaurd in cows after a killing frost then few weeks after green up I usually use Safegaurd again but this year they were going thru chute so I used Cydectin.

Haven't had any trouble. 1 cow of 35. 0 calves. Everyone else is battling it around me..........


Till,
I have always been aggressive in worming my cows. It was not until I vaccinated with an autogenous vaccine that I stopped having pinkeye. Did they indicate what connection there is between worms and pinkeye?

I have theory of just reduced stress helps. No worms/no pinkeye. We don't fight scours either and we calve our cows right next to and in with our holstein heifer growing pen.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Chocolate Cow » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:54 am

Last year was awful for pink eye around here. This year some are still complaining but I've had just a hand full of animals with it. I do have an older bull that had it last year and was treated for it. It cleared with no issues. He was back with the cows this summer and left them because he, once again, had pinkeye. I'm questioning if using his genetics is a good thing. Will his daughters be more susceptible to pinkeye? Does one blood line have more problems with pinkeye than another?
I've been very vigilant with fly control this year and a custom mineral. I read somewhere that the cow's tail does a lot of damage. As she swats flies, her tail hits her calf in the face or any other close by. The tail hair scratches the eyes which opens it to problems. To lessen eye problems it was recommended cutting the tail switch to a shorter length. You can make a judgment call on that one.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:05 am

Chocolate Cow wrote:Last year was awful for pink eye around here. This year some are still complaining but I've had just a hand full of animals with it. I do have an older bull that had it last year and was treated for it. It cleared with no issues. He was back with the cows this summer and left them because he, once again, had pinkeye. I'm questioning if using his genetics is a good thing. Will his daughters be more susceptible to pinkeye? Does one blood line have more problems with pinkeye than another?


Genetic susceptibility to infectious diseases is going to be difficult to obtain information on in cattle. You might google some of the more exhaustive papers on pinkeye to see if anyone has reported an inheritable connection. I have never seen it reported.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby farmerjan » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:27 am

Have talked to many farmers here and some have used commercial vaccines, some used special autogenous vaccines from vets supposed to be good for the local strains.....Haven't had any real agreement that one was better than the other. We vaccinated for it for 2 years and had as much trouble as when we didn't do it. Don't see any greater numbers in pastures that were bushhogged or not. One thing that we do see, is that bought cattle and their calves nearly all will get it before our own home raised cattle. Some is stress related, but I think that our home raised cattle tend to have more resistance to the strains we have.
A vet here recently at a pasture walk said there is not one single thing that can be said to stop it or not and it will be different from one farm to the next right next door. I have found that keeping the nutrition/mineral needs met, and using the sulphur salt blocks at certain pastures, seems to result in fewer cases overall year after year. I also give an A & D vit shot when the calves get their blackleg and the ones that don't get that A&D tend to be much more susceptible..... if we have 4 cases, 3 will be in the ones that don't get A&D.... and I always request that the max A&D is in the mineral mix.

We also use DE in our feed and mineral mixes and less worms and flies translates to less stress and usually less pinkeye.
But, no I won't bet my paycheck on it. Still it is little enough to do that extra.
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Nesikep » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:18 pm

Has anyone noticed if animals with deep set eyes are less susceptible to it than those with bulging eyes?
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Re: Pinkeye

Postby Chocolate Cow » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:04 pm

Nesi-I think eye structure is important.

Is eye structure a sign of thyroid issues or is it genetic or some of both or none of any?
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