bump fire stocks

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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby TexasBred » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:39 am

sim.-ang.king wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
sim.-ang.king wrote:

Yes, but a musket was military grade in the 1700's, so maybe they were saying we should only military grade weapons? So let's ban bump stocks and 22's and instead make 50 bmg's and AA-12's legal...



"Military Grade" is not in the constitution. ;-)

Your right again, so let's ban anything that isn't actual "bear arms."

The point of the Constitution wasn't to limit the people's rights, it was to limit the federal government. So if we were going to get literal with the whole thing, then that would mean the federal government can't own anything the people can't own when it comes to bearing arms.



Yet, the Article VI clause that establishes that the federal constitution, and federal law, takes precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Bestoutwest » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:21 am

Can someone please explain to me the point of owning a bump stock? Please use a different argument than to defend yourself from the military. Because unless you're bringing the serious heat, Kim Jong Un style, one A10 or a drone will remove you, your family, and everything you own from the surface of the earth.

I'm not advocating the de-arming of society, but let's stop pretending that we own these guns for our own protection from the government. Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc have proven time and time again that the government will win, and has the resources to do so. You may go down in a blaze of glory, but it will all be for want. So, to own something like a bump stock, it is in my opinion that it is owned for either nefarious reasons or for fun. If it's for fun, can we, as gun owners, stop using the Constitution as a deflection from controversy so that the infringement of rights doesn't become too severe? It's all about give and take, and with the anti-gun crowd, the less you give the more they'll try and take.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby callmefence » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:43 am

Bestoutwest wrote:Can someone please explain to me the point of owning a bump stock? Please use a different argument than to defend yourself from the military. Because unless you're bringing the serious heat, Kim Jong Un style, one A10 or a drone will remove you, your family, and everything you own from the surface of the earth.

I'm not advocating the de-arming of society, but let's stop pretending that we own these guns for our own protection from the government. Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc have proven time and time again that the government will win, and has the resources to do so. You may go down in a blaze of glory, but it will all be for want. So, to own something like a bump stock, it is in my opinion that it is owned for either nefarious reasons or for fun. If it's for fun, can we, as gun owners, stop using the Constitution as a deflection from controversy so that the infringement of rights doesn't become too severe? It's all about give and take, and with the anti-gun crowd, the less you give the more they'll try and take.



Stupidest thing I've ever seen(bump stocks). Like putting stacks and big tires on a perfectly good truck. But shouldn't be outlawed. It's not the problem, the man coulda done more damage with a match and a gallon of gas.
Problem wouldn't be the match, the can,or the gas it's the man. To even discuss banning anything is a waste of time and money.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Bestoutwest » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:02 pm

callmefence wrote: Stupidest thing I've ever seen(bump stocks). Like putting stacks and big tires on a perfectly good truck. But shouldn't be outlawed. It's not the problem, the man coulda done more damage with a match and a gallon of gas.
Problem wouldn't be the match, the can,or the gas it's the man. To even discuss banning anything is a waste of time and money.


While I don't disagree that you can't stop everything from happening, there does need to be some legislative control. Let's pick on trucks. Should that giant truck be banned or should all cars be made to be bigger to prevent someone in a Hyundai Accent from being run over (almost literally) by one of those trucks? And before we get into the debate that someone shouldn't be driving that small of a car, maybe it's their only option, we'll pretend that's the case in this scenario. So when do you have to protect people from other people's stupidity? Should we stop banning everything? Should I be allowed to get into your bank account and steal all your money? Should we have no age of consent laws? I could go on and on, but I won't. I am smart enough and pragmatic enough to understand that we can't legislate all the bad things of this world and make them go away, but should we get off the field and quit playing?

This is an interesting debate. One that has legality and passion married to each other in strongest of all marriages. My intentions are not to cause anger, accuse anyone of being stupid, or stir the pot. This is an issue that I feel genuinely needs to be looked at because mass shootings are becoming a constant in the American vernacular. I don't believe this is a simple problem of banning weapons, or improving mental health services. Rather, we need to move away from such a violent culture that we have allowed to run rampant through video game, television and movie genres. Growing up (born in 1982) there was that type of entertainment available, but not to the extent that it is today. I remember the debate about Viagra commercials during football games. Those have been replaced with trailers for violent movies, and commercials for first person video games. Honestly, I believe a lot of the blame lies there almost more than it does with the gun industry.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby callmefence » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:19 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
callmefence wrote: Stupidest thing I've ever seen(bump stocks). Like putting stacks and big tires on a perfectly good truck. But shouldn't be outlawed. It's not the problem, the man coulda done more damage with a match and a gallon of gas.
Problem wouldn't be the match, the can,or the gas it's the man. To even discuss banning anything is a waste of time and money.


While I don't disagree that you can't stop everything from happening, there does need to be some legislative control. Let's pick on trucks. Should that giant truck be banned or should all cars be made to be bigger to prevent someone in a Hyundai Accent from being run over (almost literally) by one of those trucks? And before we get into the debate that someone shouldn't be driving that small of a car, maybe it's their only option, we'll pretend that's the case in this scenario. So when do you have to protect people from other people's stupidity? Should we stop banning everything? Should I be allowed to get into your bank account and steal all your money? Should we have no age of consent laws? I could go on and on, but I won't. I am smart enough and pragmatic enough to understand that we can't legislate all the bad things of this world and make them go away, but should we get off the field and quit playing?

This is an interesting debate. One that has legality and passion married to each other in strongest of all marriages. My intentions are not to cause anger, accuse anyone of being stupid, or stir the pot. This is an issue that I feel genuinely needs to be looked at because mass shootings are becoming a constant in the American vernacular. I don't believe this is a simple problem of banning weapons, or improving mental health services. Rather, we need to move away from such a violent culture that we have allowed to run rampant through video game, television and movie genres. Growing up (born in 1982) there was that type of entertainment available, but not to the extent that it is today. I remember the debate about Viagra commercials during football games. Those have been replaced with trailers for violent movies, and commercials for first person video games. Honestly, I believe a lot of the blame lies there almost more than it does with the gun industry.


I think your making it to complicated best. How bout we just us common since. If it's not the problem. Leave it be. And address the problem directly.
Let's also accept the fact that life is full of hazards. You get in a large crowd of drunk people.....hazard...you drive your moped in the middle of a convoy of big trucks... hazard.
It's part of life...if we ban anything I vote for hurricane's
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby greybeard » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:27 pm

It's part of life...if we ban anything I vote for hurricane's

Gets my vote!!
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Bestoutwest » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:01 pm

callmefence wrote:I think your making it to complicated best. How bout we just us common since. If it's not the problem. Leave it be. And address the problem directly.
Let's also accept the fact that life is full of hazards. You get in a large crowd of drunk people.....hazard...you drive your moped in the middle of a convoy of big trucks... hazard.
It's part of life...if we ban anything I vote for hurricane's


Here's the problem: You have people that want to legislate everything you do. Cities limiting soda size. Cities enacting legislation banning smoking in cars. It goes on and on. You're right, though, life is inherently dangerous, and it all results with the same endgame. I'm not saying we should work on lowering life expectancy, but we need people to understand that life is inherently dangerous. On the flip side, what if we could, as you say, just use some common sense and work on legislation that would serve the people accordingly?

Cheers :wave:
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Cross-7 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:32 pm

Legislation will do nothing
Criminals do not obey laws.
Are all the weapons on the street registered and in possession of the rightful owner.

You ban anything of your choosing but it will be available on the black market.

I'm really not interested in voluntary putting my self at a disadvantage against an armed criminal.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby ALACOWMAN » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:49 pm

Take away guns, and all your doing is keeping good folks from protecting themselves...
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Caustic Burno » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:53 pm

ALACOWMAN wrote:Take away guns, and all your doing is keeping good folks from protecting themselves...

Your right but what most don't get is the masses will give up liberty for perceived safety.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby ALACOWMAN » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:58 pm

callmefence wrote:
Bestoutwest wrote:
callmefence wrote: Stupidest thing I've ever seen(bump stocks). Like putting stacks and big tires on a perfectly good truck. But shouldn't be outlawed. It's not the problem, the man coulda done more damage with a match and a gallon of gas.
Problem wouldn't be the match, the can,or the gas it's the man. To even discuss banning anything is a waste of time and money.


While I don't disagree that you can't stop everything from happening, there does need to be some legislative control. Let's pick on trucks. Should that giant truck be banned or should all cars be made to be bigger to prevent someone in a Hyundai Accent from being run over (almost literally) by one of those trucks? And before we get into the debate that someone shouldn't be driving that small of a car, maybe it's their only option, we'll pretend that's the case in this scenario. So when do you have to protect people from other people's stupidity? Should we stop banning everything? Should I be allowed to get into your bank account and steal all your money? Should we have no age of consent laws? I could go on and on, but I won't. I am smart enough and pragmatic enough to understand that we can't legislate all the bad things of this world and make them go away, but should we get off the field and quit playing?

This is an interesting debate. One that has legality and passion married to each other in strongest of all marriages. My intentions are not to cause anger, accuse anyone of being stupid, or stir the pot. This is an issue that I feel genuinely needs to be looked at because mass shootings are becoming a constant in the American vernacular. I don't believe this is a simple problem of banning weapons, or improving mental health services. Rather, we need to move away from such a violent culture that we have allowed to run rampant through video game, television and movie genres. Growing up (born in 1982) there was that type of entertainment available, but not to the extent that it is today. I remember the debate about Viagra commercials during football games. Those have been replaced with trailers for violent movies, and commercials for first person video games. Honestly, I believe a lot of the blame lies there almost more than it does with the gun industry.


I think your making it to complicated best. How bout we just us common since. If it's not the problem. Leave it be. And address the problem directly.
Let's also accept the fact that life is full of hazards. You get in a large crowd of drunk people.....hazard...you drive your moped in the middle of a convoy of big trucks... hazard.
It's part of life...if we ban anything I vote for hurricane's
. Common sense , is genius in its working clothes
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Cross-7 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:01 pm

Maybe we could pass a law making murder illegal
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Bestoutwest » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:10 pm

Cross-7 wrote:Maybe we could pass a law making murder illegal


See? This is where the debate ends up, and it goes nowhere. You have the massively liberal left calling for everything that could even represent a weapon to be banned. Then you have this side laughing in their face, being sarcastic and offering nothing to the debate either. The problem is that the legislation is coming down the line, it's a matter of time. The moderates are more left leaning than you'd hope to believe, and unfortunately, the masses are massively undereducated and over opinionated.
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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Caustic Burno » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:16 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
Cross-7 wrote:Maybe we could pass a law making murder illegal


See? This is where the debate ends up, and it goes nowhere. You have the massively liberal left calling for everything that could even represent a weapon to be banned. Then you have this side laughing in their face, being sarcastic and offering nothing to the debate either. The problem is that the legislation is coming down the line, it's a matter of time. The moderates are more left leaning than you'd hope to believe, and unfortunately, the masses are massively undereducated and over opinionated.


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Re: bump fire stocks

Postby Cross-7 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:47 pm

I'm sure it's available but I don't know where to look but I'd like to see the statistics on the violent crime rate in the other countries before and after banning ownership of firearms
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