Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Discuss upcoming sales and sale results.
User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5041
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 am

I have some heifers that have been exposed to two or more bulls. I'd like to know if it's possible to tell who the sire of the fetus is through a blood test?
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3963
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:13 am

True Grit Farms wrote:I have some heifers that have been exposed to two or more bulls. I'd like to know if it's possible to tell who the sire of the fetus is through a blood test?

Yes. You can run a parentage blood test. I assume you mean postpartum. Sample the calf. The lab will need a data base that includes the DNA fingerprints of the bulls.

PS: I assume your title question is more accurately explained your text question.
0 x

User avatar
Supa Dexta
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1836
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:33 am
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Supa Dexta » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:25 am

Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.
0 x

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3963
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:30 am

Supa Dexta wrote:Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.


I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.
0 x

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5041
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:27 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Supa Dexta wrote:Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.


I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know. That's why I used fetus and not calf. Sure would be nice if you could.
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3963
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:35 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Supa Dexta wrote:Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.


I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know. That's why I used fetus and not calf. Sure would be nice if you could.


Why do you need to know before the calf born?
0 x

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5041
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know. That's why I used fetus and not calf. Sure would be nice if you could.


Why do you need to know before the calf born?

I feel the heifers would bring a few more dollars if I knew who the father was instead of guessing. I have sell all my heifers bred private treaty off the farm or at breeders sales.
1 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 14831
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby greybeard » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:00 pm

Short answer is no as has already been said.. but just for sheets and giggles.......
I think it 'may' be able to be done, perhaps only on a theoretic or deep research level, but not just anywhere and probably not cheaply or easily.
Cells do pass the placenta from fetus to mother and these cells can change the mother's genetic makeup..over time. Might even have to be done using certain brain cells from the mother, as research has shown that these cells are capable of crossing the blood/brain barrier. The cells that cross from fetus to mother thru the placenta are talked about here:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180956493/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchimerism
0 x
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

wbvs58
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3359
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:45 am
Location: S.E. Queensland, Australia

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby wbvs58 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:23 pm

GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken
1 x

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3963
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:30 pm

wbvs58 wrote:GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken


I remember about the same as you. It even crossed my mind when Grit ask. I would just wrap it up by saying there is no conventional method.
0 x

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 14831
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby greybeard » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:55 pm

wbvs58 wrote:GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken

Shows just how much I am able to comprehend but it seems I had read a few months (years?) ago that research had shown it also happened in mice. Anyway, the ? was already answered.
0 x
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

wbvs58
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3359
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:45 am
Location: S.E. Queensland, Australia

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby wbvs58 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:07 pm

greybeard wrote:
wbvs58 wrote:GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken

Shows just how much I am able to comprehend but it seems I had read a few months (years?) ago that research had shown it also happened in mice. Anyway, the ? was already answered.


You are well read GB, a lot more than I am these days. It is interesting to have a bit of side information.

Ken
0 x

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 12419
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Nesikep » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:12 pm

I think you MIGHT be able to but it would be really difficult.. probably could get a blood sample from the fetus if you were determined enough and had the equipment
0 x
The only possible end result of treating all animals like people is that all people will be treated like animals

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3963
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:59 pm

Nesikep wrote:I think you MIGHT be able to but it would be really difficult.. probably could get a blood sample from the fetus if you were determined enough and had the equipment


No question about that, Nesikep. You could even take a tissue sample of the fetus. But the expense and risk are not worth the few extra dollars that True Grit would gain. He would also need to submit samples on the two bulls if their DNA profiles are not on record.
0 x

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 12419
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Postby Nesikep » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:16 pm

Yes, there is certainly a difference between possible and practical in this case
0 x
The only possible end result of treating all animals like people is that all people will be treated like animals


Return to “Cattle Sales”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests