2yo that bites

Horse management, health, feeding and grooming.
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D.R. Cattle
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Postby D.R. Cattle » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:04 pm

BullBucker wrote:I was a little short on time the other day so here I go.

I got this horse to breed. and also knowing that I was going to have my hands full. I did not know he bit, but I would still got him. so I will keep him and as a stud.

he is head shy, has had no training. but he dose like a good rub.

all he wares is halter and lead rope. do to lack of training he drags the lead at all times. but being that he was never messed with much he is not spoiled. and he is not...I can't think of the word, but when it comes feeding time he has got to be the most calm horse out there. so thats at lest one good thing.

I have had no battle of wills with him. cigar?! nailes?! a little harsh?! and no my first instinct was not {and never has been} to knock the #### out of him. the only time I'm not calm is if I'm very very happy, or very very mad at someone-a human someone.
you don't take the lords name in vain, you don't cross my family, you don't kick my dog, and you don't chase my stock.

I'v been shoving him back. and I know I'v got to get his respect. I'm more then willing to take my whole life to get him to stop. but with in the week would make me happy too.

to D.R. Cattle-my GGrandpa had a stud that someone took a 2x4 too. lost his site in one eye, and from that day on only GGrandpa and my Grandma could even tuch him. the horse that used to wow every one was never the same.

I know that you all don't want anyone geting hurt.


I didn't say hit him in the head with a 2x4. Common sense needs to prevail. What people don't understand is horses are tough. Love taps don't tell them anything except that we are weak and easy to take advantage of. I ride horses for a living. I love them because they are unique and have capabilities that suit me better than any other critter God gave me (dogs come in second). I do it all day every day, on a large cattle ranch. Horses don't want to be treated like patsy's. They want to be what they were made to be. My horses test me from time to time to see if I'm getting weak. I don't give in and they continue being top notch workin boys. Heavy discipline once goes a lot further than weak discipline 20 times. And I don't mean abuse.
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Alan
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Postby Alan » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:32 pm

BullBucker wrote:I was a little short on time the other day so here I go.

I got this horse to breed. and also knowing that I was going to have my hands full. I did not know he bit, but I would still got him. so I will keep him and as a stud.

he is head shy, has had no training. but he dose like a good rub.

all he wares is halter and lead rope. do to lack of training he drags the lead at all times. but being that he was never messed with much he is not spoiled. and he is not...I can't think of the word, but when it comes feeding time he has got to be the most calm horse out there. so thats at lest one good thing.

I have had no battle of wills with him. cigar?! nailes?! a little harsh?! and no my first instinct was not {and never has been} to knock the #### out of him. the only time I'm not calm is if I'm very very happy, or very very mad at someone-a human someone.
you don't take the lords name in vain, you don't cross my family, you don't kick my dog, and you don't chase my stock.

I'v been shoving him back. and I know I'v got to get his respect. I'm more then willing to take my whole life to get him to stop. but with in the week would make me happy too.

to D.R. Cattle-my GGrandpa had a stud that someone took a 2x4 too. lost his site in one eye, and from that day on only GGrandpa and my Grandma could even tuch him. the horse that used to wow every one was never the same.

I know that you all don't want anyone geting hurt.


Bullbucker,

You may need to realize that horse of any size are not even close to being dogs of domistic pets. Not saying that you can't be close to your horse. But dogs and cats are so far away from thinking like a horse it's... no comment. I think you are way off base in your thinking on how to handle a stud. Luckily it's a mini. Not really sorry for the harse words but if your going to have a stud get a good one and know what you are doing!

Alan
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Postby msscamp » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:52 pm

BullBucker wrote:but being that he was never messed with much he is not spoiled.

Being spoiled has to do with he has been allowed to have his way and so throws a fit when that doesn't happen - usually manifested in biting, kicking, bucking, striking, running away, etc. More often than not, the horses that weren't messed with are the ones that are spoiled because their owners never bothered to teach them manners and they don't have a clue as to what is acceptable and what isn't. Not the horses fault, but it is still a major problem.

I have had no battle of wills with him.

Whether you recognize it or not, you're having a battle of wills with him right now - he wants to bite and you don't want him to, it's as simple as that.

I know that you all don't want anyone geting hurt.

You're right, I don't....but it looks like someone is going to get hurt - you.
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Postby flaboy- » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:44 am

In my book there are two horses that require physical punishment. The two are - biters and kickers. My experience is neither of these is curable via being nice to them.

Had stud years ago that took a chunk out of my shoulder. He got five knuckles in the nose several times after that and he never bit again.

I currently have a filly that kicked and bit. Hard slaps on the nose was enough for her to soon decide she didn't want to bite anymore. Kicking was broken with a buggy whip to heals every time I saw her kick or prepare to kick. She squats now when I touch her on her rear.

I have never heard of ANYONE breaking these two habits by being nice to their horse. Some say hobbles will break a kicker and maybe so but hobbles can permanently harm a horse where a little blasting on the heals doesn't.
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Postby Alan » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:46 am

flaboy- wrote:In my book there are two horses that require physical punishment. The two are - biters and kickers. My experience is neither of these is curable via being nice to them.

Had stud years ago that took a chunk out of my shoulder. He got five knuckles in the nose several times after that and he never bit again.

I currently have a filly that kicked and bit. Hard slaps on the nose was enough for her to soon decide she didn't want to bite anymore. Kicking was broken with a buggy whip to heals every time I saw her kick or prepare to kick. She squats now when I touch her on her rear.

I have never heard of ANYONE breaking these two habits by being nice to their horse. Some say hobbles will break a kicker and maybe so but hobbles can permanently harm a horse where a little blasting on the heals doesn't.


Agree 100%

Horse bites me, it's a hard smack to the mouth, a horse nibbles with it's lips, it's an uncomfortable nudge or poke to the nose. I don't think this causes the horse to be head shy. Head shy comes when most of the discipline goes at the head.

A horse turns around to put its butt towards me it gets a pick or what ever extension to my body I have in the butt.

Alan
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Postby BullBucker » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:33 pm

I know horses and dogs are not the same.
and say what you like.

the um..."breeders" who gave me a QH filly tryed hobbles tied to the head. all that did is frek her out. and she did kick one other time. and it was my falt that the 4mo filly kicked me, she did not see me and I {dumb sh**} put my hand on her rump. I'm thinking but I don't know what was don the other time, after she kicked that is. she had wanted her feed. and I saw it coming and moved. after working with her a lot, she is now very calm, and just about a year old.

if you ever think I not on here cuz I'm, I just don't think about this bord all the time.

sorry but I'v got this stubern strek.

I see now what your say R.D. and...I'm sorry. just to let you know I could not even swing a 2x4. I'm-as most put it-tiny.

and I know it's a good thing he is small. but I'm doing my best to learn with this small stud.
I had not got to work him much {I was sore after the last rodeo} but I when out with him last night. he was not being pushy when I left.

Alan if you would be so kind as to tell me how am I off base in my thinking of how to handle a stud.
I have never rily had any one teach me how to handle any horse. and it looks like your all stuck with me.

but all I know is that when I lose my cool the Sh** hits the fan. that is why I have trained myself to stay so calm.
and my dad take a lot of pride in me, so I don't like to mess up.

I don't know if I'v said this but I'v had horses for about 18 years now. but they are calmer and older.

so come on keep sharing.

hope I did not come off like a you know what.

JP
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Postby Alan » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:59 pm

BullBucker wrote:Alan if you would be so kind as to tell me how am I off base in my thinking of how to handle a stud.
I have never rily had any one teach me how to handle any horse. and it looks like your all stuck with me.


Not a problem, thanks for clearing the air. Sounds like you know bulls pretty well and how dangerous they can be. Well in my opinion a stallion is worse just because 1 second they can look calm and normal then they get a look in their eye and turn to kill you with feet and teeth.

If your not planning on breeding the stud, he's best off and safest as a gelding.

You have gotten some good tips on this post. Another thing to remember is you have about 1 second to react to a horses actions, so they know what your reaction was for. Also, horses hate to back up, but to discpline you can also make the stud back up a few yards, not too fast it's hard on the legs.

Good luck,
Alan
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Postby BullBucker » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 pm

I know that they don't like to back up, and befor posted on here thats what I was doing. I also back my yearling filly if she get pushy.
the first mare I plan to breed him to is my shetland mini cross, I keep that foal just as a pet. but I am looking for mini mares right now.
but if he passed on his bad habits, then are good odds I'll geld him.
he looks more like a mini draft. I got to see some for the first time last year. and I love drafts. so I'm looking for even hever mares.

one of the hard things with him is he is so short. he will move to the side with out a tuch, but to bach him, I have to push.

I like bulls better then calves. for fun last sunday they put me on one. and she {yes she} through me into the shoot. the helmet saved my face. I never been on any bad ones. but I know a few. but Big John {the stud} make most look like kitty cats.

JP
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Postby gabz » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:02 pm

I agree with the others that say to geld him. You do not want those traits being passed to future generations.

In the meantime, get a piece of PVC pipe - 18 -24" long - 1 1/2 -2" diameter or so. Thread your lead line through it. I put a big honking knot in the lead line about 3' up to keep the pvc pipe from going too far up the line. This will enable you to keep your distance from his mouth. Sometimes a length of pvc pipe can be used to smack them too... makes SUCH a noise... ;-)

Put a clean halter on him and leave a length of lead (when he's standing with his head level, it should just reach the ground) attached. This is how you will get hold of him to attach the pipe lead to him, without putting your hands TOO close to his mouth.

Anytime he bites or misbehaves, you MUST reprimand within 3 seconds. YELL LOUDLY - growl, kick him in the side or chest with a rounded toe boot or sneaker (or the side of your foot if you've got pointed boots on) Kicking and snarling is just like another horse would do, lean into or step towards him. For 3 seconds ACT LIKE you are going to KILL HIM. No more.
(this goes for that filly that's kicking too)

If necessary - carry a dressage whip with a popper on the end I like dressage whips - they are nearly 4' long... I'm short - makes me taller and gives me 6' long arms!! and snap his chest or hip if he misbehaves (if you snap his hip, be ready for him to jump forward.. that's why I prefer the chest - makes them go backwards). WHEN he is GOOD, rub his withers, back, shoulders, with the whip and praise him. When he's bad, snap him and growl at him.

One more thing about stud horses. Don't pet their faces. Just Don't. If you want to "pet" a stud horse, give him pats and rubs on his shoulders or high neck.
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Postby BullBucker » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:30 pm

I am NOT going to geld him. like I said IF his foals are like he is now, then and only then will I even think about gelding him.

my filly was 5 months old when that happend, and she is a year old now. and dose not kick.


JP
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Postby ONLY-BEEF » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:45 pm

Mister BullBucker. given the pony a good beaten can an does work! now to go ahead an fix the particular problem of yur stud biten ya. take yur self a good sized potato and boil it til its real hot just a bit soft. strap a hot pad and then a piece of tin foil to yur arm. next go ahead and wrap that boilen hot potato in a paper napkin and tape it to yur arm real light like. put on a full sleave shirt over that. now you go right on ahead and let em have a good bite of what he thinks is yur arm. when his gums get the be nice burnt out o them he wont be comen back for more.
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Postby BullBucker » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:01 pm

I'm working on him. still pushy, but not biting. he is geting much better. I got tips from someone on another bord, and they are working. it's worked on every horse she tryed it on.

by the way I'm a Miss, not a Mr. and yes I ride bulls. and someday I hope to breed them.
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Postby flaboy- » Thu May 25, 2006 6:35 am

BullBucker wrote:I'm working on him. still pushy, but not biting. he is geting much better. I got tips from someone on another bord, and they are working. it's worked on every horse she tryed it on.

by the way I'm a Miss, not a Mr. and yes I ride bulls. and someday I hope to breed them.


Care to share this technique with us that works on every horse. :?:
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Postby Heritage_Farmboy » Mon May 29, 2006 4:58 pm

could just be that the previous owners hand fed the horse and as a colt...they thought it was "cute" for him to nibble on them...put him in a round pen...you have to teach your horse that your not just another horse thats he's got to compete with...i'd say put him in a roundpen and let him approach you...when he sticks his nose out to bite...yell and throw your arms up...scare him...he'll then run off and probably run around the pin a few times...then stand back in the middle of the pen again...if he comes back and tries to bite again...then scare him...make him run around the pen...do that over and over until he realizes that biting is going to lead to him getting scared and having to run
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Postby BullBucker » Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:00 am

I put him in with my mare, and he is now one happy boy.

I know they said he loves apples. but they only had him a year. on top of that he was never worked with much, and live alone for a year. I also think he was a little worred, cuz now that he is in with another horse he is much calmer.


here is what I was told.
Start carrying a small riding crop with you when you go to handle him. Halter him, and work at leading him; use that crop as a 'wall'.
Let me explain: Any horse who bites has learned that there are no real boundaries. Well, he needs to learn that there ARE! I don't like to use my hands directly to hit a horse, ever, even in a biting case. I only use my fist if I have no crop, or lead rope in hand. When you lead him, keep that crop lined up perpendicular to his face; when he turns his face into you, whether or not he seems to be friendly or not, bring that crop right into his face. Don't say anything or react in any other form or fashion; let him figure it out, that biting is no longer going to get a reaction of any sort from you. The key here, however, is to make sure you are always in constant check of him. You have to become the leader...no ifs, ands, or buts; or in this case, bites! Lol! Don't ever turn your back to him for any reason; this invites him to challenge your authority. When you go to leave his pen, make sure you are in a position you can easily back out of the pen, or atleast walk out in a fashion that you can keep both eyes on him.
When you do go to leave, keep your crop in hand, and if he tries to follow you, bring that crop into his chest, and tell him to "Back Up"...he needs to learn there is NO forgiveness for invading YOUR space!

but that is dose not work so well if the horse will not lead.
I stay just a little more pushy then him. I am still geting him use to being messed with. it is taking long then a good wack would have, but I just don't work that way. never have, never will.

Heritage_Farmboy that is a lot like what some others have said to do. but he is not very flitey, and I want to keep it that way.

well it's late so I'll be going now. sorry I don't get on here much.

and every one dose things in their own way.
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