What is hereditary from a cow

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
Angus Rocks
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Ks
Has thanked: 1 time

What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Angus Rocks » Sun May 21, 2017 9:57 pm

So have had cows for around 10 years and just started keeping our own replacements about 3 years ago and last year I bought some registered red and black Angus heifers and cows and have been thinking about what all passes on to the calves? For one thing one of the black cows I bought had a calf a few weeks ago and has a big udder and the back 2 quarters hang way lower her calf is a heifer so is this going to pass on to her calf or does she of that stuff come from the bull?



User avatar
Son of Butch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6078
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:44 pm
Location: Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 281 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Son of Butch » Sun May 21, 2017 10:15 pm

Wow 2017 and not sure what to say other than... Both parents equal in passing on all traits regardless of sex.
Grandparents too as that's where each parent received their genes.

User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 175 times
Contact:

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Aaron » Sun May 21, 2017 11:18 pm

Welcome to the world of craps. Throw the dice and see what happens. Sometimes the end result is a jackpot and sometimes it is just continual misery. But keep throwing loaded dice and the odds are more in your favor.
cor durum laborem

WalnutCrest
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2452
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Northeast KS (USA)
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by WalnutCrest » Mon May 22, 2017 8:22 am

What all passes on to the calves?

Excepting the effects of mutations (which seem to be more prevalent in some breeds than others), the next generation gets everything that's needed to survive ... and if they don't get what they need, they die (or at least don't reproduce ... and if they do reproduce, they don't reproduce often).

As to the future udder on your new heifer ... look at your cow's dam, her half siblings (other cows stored by the same bull), her sires full sisters, her sires dam and her sisters ... if any of them are known and available ... and that should give you a sense (good and bad) for what the range of possibilities might be for you.

Good luck.
Fullblood Aubrac & Mashona Cattle

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9777
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 498 times
Been thanked: 515 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 22, 2017 9:30 am

Inheritance is a function of random combinations of chromosomes during the genesis of the sperm and egg. How they are expressed in the offspring takes a college course in genetics to treat fairly.

But Aaron got it right. Think of it as a crap shoot. The percent of traits dictated by the maternal side can be anything from 10% to 70 %. The traits dictated by the paternal side can be anything from 10% to 70%. [Percentages are arbitrary] The calf is an expression of the sum of the genetic material from of all its ancestors. All the way back to the origins of life.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

WalnutCrest
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2452
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Northeast KS (USA)
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by WalnutCrest » Mon May 22, 2017 9:34 am

10 + 70 = no conception
Fullblood Aubrac & Mashona Cattle

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9777
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 498 times
Been thanked: 515 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 22, 2017 9:36 am

WalnutCrest wrote:10 + 70 = no conception

Explain. Conception has occurred. The subject relates to what expressed traits are attributed to sire and dam.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

WalnutCrest
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2452
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Northeast KS (USA)
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by WalnutCrest » Mon May 22, 2017 10:21 am

Conception doesn't happen unless 100% of the needed genetics are present.
Fullblood Aubrac & Mashona Cattle

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9777
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 498 times
Been thanked: 515 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 22, 2017 10:29 am

WalnutCrest wrote:Conception doesn't happen unless 100% of the needed genetics are present.


I thought that was the misunderstanding. Conception has already occurred at the point in my post that I get to percentages.

Explanation:
The arbitrary percentages I used are for the percent of visible traits observed in the offspring. I used arbitrary percentages because the state of the science has not advanced to the point that it is known what percentage of a paternal or maternal genome is expressed in the offspring.

Note: Remember, not all the genetic material in cell is expressed. One gene in each allele may or may not be expressed; in an allele one gene may suppress the other gene. That is where the terms dominant and recessive apply.

Reference: Allele: One member of a pair (or any of the series) of genes occupying a specific spot on a chromosome (called locus) that controls the same trait.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Mon May 22, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TennesseeTuxedo
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 13411
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Live in Franklin, TN farm in Warsaw, KY
Has thanked: 537 times
Been thanked: 505 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Mon May 22, 2017 10:36 am

Son of Butch wrote:Wow 2017 and not sure what to say other than... Both parents equal in passing on all traits regardless of sex.
Grandparents too as that's where each parent received their genes.


I think this is a good question worthy of discussion.
You're not paranoid, they really are out to get you!

User avatar
Rafter S
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:13 am
Location: Grimes County, TX
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Rafter S » Mon May 22, 2017 10:37 am

There are several things that will make me cull a cow, no question asked: slow breeder, bad bag, bad feet, or bad attitude. I won't keep a heifer from a cow that exhibited either of the first two, probably shouldn't keep one from a cow with the third, and take the fourth on a case by case basis.
Life is too short to drink cheap beer or dance with ugly women.

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9777
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 498 times
Been thanked: 515 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 22, 2017 10:55 am

Observation:

Genetist are not usually breeders.

And breeders are rarely genetist. Read an article on breeding and you rarely get to the end without being aware they have some misunderstandings about the application of genetics to breeding.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

WalnutCrest
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2452
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Northeast KS (USA)
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by WalnutCrest » Mon May 22, 2017 1:23 pm

Shoemaker is different in that regard; both a breeder and a geneticist. Look up his stuff on racing pigeons (etc); there is applicability to breeding of other types of critters, too.
Fullblood Aubrac & Mashona Cattle

Angus Rocks
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Ks
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Angus Rocks » Mon May 22, 2017 7:09 pm

I purchased the cow from a guy that was dispersing his herd so I don't have any siblings or parents to compare or look at. So pry a million dollar thought or question but why is everybody so concerned about getting this bull or that bull if they don't pass some good traits on? One other question does tit layout on a bull pass on to it's offspring? I think it was in goats that I seen some herd the owners kept records on that like it made a difference.

User avatar
Chocolate Cow
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 12:21 am
Location: West Central Kansas

Re: What is hereditary from a cow

Post by Chocolate Cow » Mon May 22, 2017 7:17 pm

Bonsma said everything is determined at the moment of conception.

Post Reply