Permethrin and pasture

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Nicklausjames

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Ticks are really bad this year, I have one spot in my pasture that is a mix woodland/pasture. I was thinking of spraying with permethrin. Is this safe if the animals are grazing? Do I have to wait to let them back on after spraying? If yes, how long?
 
I don't exactly know the answer, but, I spray my cattle with it for flies and they seem to love it.
 
Resurrecting an old thread that came up while I was looking at options to spray wooded pasture areas for ticks.

I was looking at using a Permethrin based product for tick control. I found a product called Astro, which is 36.8% Permethrin. The label says it can be used on lawns. If you look on page 4 under "Application to Outside Surfaces" it has ticks listed under Pest, note 4 gives a rate for fleas, which seems to include ticks. I don't think it would be using it off label to use it to spray a wooded pasture area for ticks. Based on my reading of the label, I think it would be good to allow 12 hours before putting cows back into the pasture. To target ticks, it is probably best to spray in wooded areas or the edge of the pasture/wood area. I think I will use a spot sprayer and focus on wooded areas and loafing areas that are shaded. It probably makes sense to spray in the early summer when ticks are the worst. I also think we need to keep in mind that Permethrin kills many beneficial insects also, like bees. So I will focus my spraying on heavy tick infested areas and avoid spraying large areas.

 
Nicklausjames said:
Ticks are really bad this year, I have one spot in my pasture that is a mix woodland/pasture. I was thinking of spraying with permethrin. Is this safe if the animals are grazing? Do I have to wait to let them back on after spraying? If yes, how long?
Click to expand...
What does the label say?
The label is the law!
Be careful what you advertise in today's world.
Lot of chemicals we used in pasture is illegal today especially if there is run off.
 
The thread starter hasn't been here for 5 years, probably isn't coming back. Permethrin actually is labeled for "rangeland" and of course most vegetables and crops. It says cattle must " not be present", but doesn't specify how long until they can be brought back. Jere it is, if this works.
Permethrin
 
M.Magis said:
The thread starter hasn't been here for 5 years, probably isn't coming back. Permethrin actually is labeled for "rangeland" and of course most vegetables and crops. It says cattle must " not be present", but doesn't specify how long until they can be brought back. Jere it is, if this works.
Permethrin
Click to expand...
That is a Colorado letter. bigbluegrass states location as Kentucky so I would bump that up against Kentucky law and see where they stand.
 
I noticed in the link @M.Magis posted on page 26 (PDF page 28) under use restrictions (top of the page) "Do not apply directly to livestock or poultry." Ultra Boss is 5% Permethrin and available as a pour on..:unsure: Obviously it is applied directly to the livestock. How does that work? That is an EPA document so I assume it applies to all of the states the same?

I also noticed on many of the individual applications it states under "use restrictions": "Do not graze livestock in treated areas or feed cover crops from treated areas to livestock".
 
1982vett said:
That is a Colorado letter. bigbluegrass states location as Kentucky so I would bump that up against Kentucky law and see where they stand.
Click to expand...
Does the US EPA create different lables for different states? I thought they were universal across the states.
 
I think you can spray permethrin on livestock to control flies. That is why they sale it. The label provides instructions on how much to mix per gallon for the type of livestock you are applying it to. I have not heard of spraying it on pasture, but horse stables and corals it provides instructions. I suspect there is something better out there to control ticks in pasture.
 
Can a state allow a restriction that the EPA doesn't? My understanding is/was that a state can be more restrictive, but if the EPA doesn't allow some pesticide or insecticide application, the state can't permit its use in that exact same way.

Maybe, regarding the use of Permethrin applied directly to livestock the Permethrin label is referring to the 38.4% product (which is what the linked PDF is related to). Ultra boss is diluted to 5%. However, if you look at the ASTRO label linked above (my first post) which is 36.8% Permethrin and it doesn't list any of the livestock or feed, hay and cover crop restrictions that are listed in the Permethrin label and it lists many of the exact same applications. I didn't convert the application rates to see if or how they differ - one is product per acre and the other is product per gallon and SF.

However, I suspect the difference is actually that Permethrin did not do any research related to and did not pay the EPA to look at the application of their product directly to an animal, so they needed to add a restriction to the label. However, Ultraboss specifically researched and asked the EPA to look at the application of their product to an animal and therefore they are allowed to list it on their label. ASTRO paid and researched the use specifically related to fruit trees, lawns, etc. As a result, we end up with the confusing restrictions with products that all have the same active ingredient.
 
I think it should also be answered to the question if you can mix Permethrin to remove or thin ticks and make some home made ASTRO (or for a livestock spray for making home made Ultra Boss), the answer would be: Legally NO

Once you do that, you can no longer refer to a label for withdrawal times or other guidance because you have your own chemical concoction that isn't labeled or tested. Basically you are bypassing all of the safety protocols.
 
bigbluegrass said:
Can a state allow a restriction that the EPA doesn't? My understanding is/was that a state can be more restrictive, but if the EPA doesn't allow some pesticide or insecticide application, the state can't permit its use in that exact same way.

Maybe, regarding the use of Permethrin applied directly to livestock the Permethrin label is referring to the 38.4% product (which is what the linked PDF is related to). Ultra boss is diluted to 5%. However, if you look at the ASTRO label linked above (my first post) which is 36.8% Permethrin and it doesn't list any of the livestock or feed, hay and cover crop restrictions that are listed in the Permethrin label and it lists many of the exact same applications. I didn't convert the application rates to see if or how they differ - one is product per acre and the other is product per gallon and SF.

However, I suspect the difference is actually that Permethrin did not do any research related to and did not pay the EPA to look at the application of their product directly to an animal, so they needed to add a restriction to the label. However, Ultraboss specifically researched and asked the EPA to look at the application of their product to an animal and therefore they are allowed to list it on their label. ASTRO paid and researched the use specifically related to fruit trees, lawns, etc. As a result, we end up with the confusing restrictions with products that all have the same active ingredient.
Click to expand...
California is the best example…
 
bigbluegrass said:
Resurrecting an old thread that came up while I was looking at options to spray wooded pasture areas for ticks.

I was looking at using a Permethrin based product for tick control. I found a product called Astro, which is 36.8% Permethrin. The label says it can be used on lawns. If you look on page 4 under "Application to Outside Surfaces" it has ticks listed under Pest, note 4 gives a rate for fleas, which seems to include ticks. I don't think it would be using it off label to use it to spray a wooded pasture area for ticks. Based on my reading of the label, I think it would be good to allow 12 hours before putting cows back into the pasture. To target ticks, it is probably best to spray in wooded areas or the edge of the pasture/wood area. I think I will use a spot sprayer and focus on wooded areas and loafing areas that are shaded. It probably makes sense to spray in the early summer when ticks are the worst. I also think we need to keep in mind that Permethrin kills many beneficial insects also, like bees. So I will focus my spraying on heavy tick infested areas and avoid spraying large areas.

Click to expand...
Wooded pasture? I know you are talking about ticks, but the phrase "wooded pasture" is setting off alarm bells in my mind. I hope there is a grass understory that is creating true silvopasture or the wooded areas are very small (<1/5 acre). I can explain why, but I'd like a better picture in my mind of what they are grazing.
 

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