100% AI?
- Thread starter southernultrablack
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southernultrablack
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That brings up a good point, if they don't stick in 3 cycles of AI, should they hit the road? I've heard some cows won't stick to AI, but will stick first time with a bull. So are the cows that stick superior in fertility?ez14.":2lm61igm said:
Bright Raven
Well-known member
southernultrablack":dusapoyd said:
I don't know if I really believe that a cow cannot stick to AI. IMO, there is a factor somewhere in the program that is making AI difficult. Maybe endophyte fescue - certainly makes AI more difficult for Fire Sweep. Maybe poor minerals. I use Vitaferm ConceptAid. It says ConceptAid for a reason. Maybe too much stress in some handling facilities. It could be a lot of factors. At the end of the day, you got to cull the ones that do not perform in your program.
Well Southern, I am doing the exact same thing only have 10 cows tho. I am actually on day 20th after bred ai on a timed cycle 20 days ago. I currently have only observed one in standing heat on a heifer that I ai'd on the timed cycle. I did thro patches on all my cows in case I missed any visual standing heat.
So I hope I didn't just jinx myself. I usually do an ultra sound day 60. But my goals are the same as yours as far as having a tight window, but I usually always have a stragler or 2. This will be my 3rd year aiing my own cattle and we are building the herd the slow way.
So I hope I didn't just jinx myself. I usually do an ultra sound day 60. But my goals are the same as yours as far as having a tight window, but I usually always have a stragler or 2. This will be my 3rd year aiing my own cattle and we are building the herd the slow way.
So you got sperm and an egg they meet in the right conditions and you have conception! How they got there doesn't matter. A bull doesn't have 100 % conception and your not going to get 100 % conception. But if you have the time and a good handling setup you can definitely make it worksouthernultrablack":2y1wytz1 said:
What I would do is set everyone up for a timed AI then give them 2 chances on the following natural heats for a total of 3 chances to conceive. That puts everyone getting bred inside of a 45 day breeding season. Anyone open after that should be shipped :2cents:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I used 100% AI for maybe 30+ years - with a 60 day window. Yes, we would have a cow or two open. Some would be bred and slip the calf later. But, you will have the exact same problem with using a bull. Unless you keep the bull with them year round, you will have open cows.
We went to AI'ing 42 days, then a clean up bull for 24 days. Makes life easier, but we still ended up with an open one or more. I am back to 100% AI for past two years.
We calve spring & fall, so if I have a good cow come up open, I can give her a 2nd chance and only lose 6 months on her. Open again, shipped. I don't have any "border-line" cows sitting around waiting for an excuse to get rid of. I have to think long & hard about shipping one of my cows, because they are hard to replace. If I have a bad one, she gets shipped right away. I do have some cows that have minor problems (like a problem with a foot or don't like their udder), so I put an embryo in them, because I don't want their genetics to continue.
AI is a commitment of TIME. You have to decide if the value of your calves out-weigh the effort.
We went to AI'ing 42 days, then a clean up bull for 24 days. Makes life easier, but we still ended up with an open one or more. I am back to 100% AI for past two years.
We calve spring & fall, so if I have a good cow come up open, I can give her a 2nd chance and only lose 6 months on her. Open again, shipped. I don't have any "border-line" cows sitting around waiting for an excuse to get rid of. I have to think long & hard about shipping one of my cows, because they are hard to replace. If I have a bad one, she gets shipped right away. I do have some cows that have minor problems (like a problem with a foot or don't like their udder), so I put an embryo in them, because I don't want their genetics to continue.
AI is a commitment of TIME. You have to decide if the value of your calves out-weigh the effort.
True Grit Farms
Well-known member
We do some AI but mostly live cover with bulls. A GOOD cow delivers a calf every 12 months or less no excuse. Good cows need no excuses they just do their job and move on to the next one.
Ebenezer
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Cdcollett":378hqade said:
Bright Raven
Well-known member
True Grit Farms":22ddw9cz said:
100% agree. If I have a cow that does not take during my AI breeding season - she is gone. I will cull for bad fertility before anything else because I will not tolerate having calves out of my calving season.
True Grit Farms
Well-known member
I was surprised about you on that one but there's no other way to be 100% AI, and to get a 100% bred sometimes. With my AI and heat detection skills I'd end up out of the cow business.Bright Raven":24oeeb00 said:
Bright Raven
Well-known member
True Grit Farms":3c4xxy1c said:
I don't want my cattle to become a burden. I went to a tight fall calving season so I get that chore done ONCE! I will not tolerate calving year round. It's a burden! I will not tolerate breeding year around. I want it done in 8 weeks. If I have a cow that cannot take to AI in a couple cycles, she will be sold. There are exceptions to everything but I don't let my operation manage me. I intend to manage my operation!
Ok, I am on board with tight calving windows, sounds great. My question is how do you check when they are preg?
Do you just watch for heats? Do you blood test? ultra sound? put patches on them? Just trying to figure out a better way then what I am doing now. Remember I have no bull and am not getting one for my size project.
Its not hard too miss a cycle when you have off the farm jobs. And I do pay close attention to the cows, even had a cow stand for one last year after confirmed preg on both cows. Now it may be possible it was a dominance thing not sure. Another question is do you pay attention to bull calves? these calves are still on cows around 4 to 5 mounths old.
Do you just watch for heats? Do you blood test? ultra sound? put patches on them? Just trying to figure out a better way then what I am doing now. Remember I have no bull and am not getting one for my size project.
Its not hard too miss a cycle when you have off the farm jobs. And I do pay close attention to the cows, even had a cow stand for one last year after confirmed preg on both cows. Now it may be possible it was a dominance thing not sure. Another question is do you pay attention to bull calves? these calves are still on cows around 4 to 5 mounths old.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
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LOL - love your honesty!!!True Grit Farms":vf91584x said:
hornedfrogbbq
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I think the consensus on time is correct. If you have it, use the best indicators for standing heats. We have too big a herd and not enough time to do that. We AI 100% and put the bulls in to do their thing.
We are experimenting having bulls on them during the timed AI, BEFORE we AI so any early birds can get hit when they are hot. We pull the bulls the night before we AI the next morning. We immediately put the bulls on them after the AI session. We are buying good enough bulls that we'd want to retain heifers out of them and are more concerned about getting the calf on the ground 21 days earlier.
We are experimenting having bulls on them during the timed AI, BEFORE we AI so any early birds can get hit when they are hot. We pull the bulls the night before we AI the next morning. We immediately put the bulls on them after the AI session. We are buying good enough bulls that we'd want to retain heifers out of them and are more concerned about getting the calf on the ground 21 days earlier.
bryan, i put a patch on them 17 days after breeding, then breed as needed, blood check 28 days after, then i have put a cidr in when i get the negative at 30 days. gonna recycle at around 42 anyway but with the cidr its on my terms. bbq really cant wrap my head around turning bulls in early, i understand good bulls, but id give the cows lute let the bulls do it, save that money. or just breed what needs breeding early. i do think turning bulls in day after in a commercial setting is a great idea.
Till-Hill
Well-known member
Hugely disagree, money lost every day a cow is open. We try to stay at about a 14 month interval on cows and 12.5 for first calf heifers. Cows are milking to hard/long to have them calf at 12 months currently.jehosofat":iswmhnu9 said:
Till-Hill
Well-known member
60 days is target. Average is 57 right now, bunch of twins rolled thru. Dry them up a week early but they calve sometimes earlier.ez14.":11nwpze6 said:
ok I thought since you have them on a 14 month calving interval maybe you were giving them a longer dry period. Do you find they still produce well in the couple of extra months?Till-Hill":1cr8z5vb said:
Till-Hill
Well-known member
Most will, some won't. Today I have 4 cows to dry up. Last lactations started 6/1/17, 4/14/17, 8/25/17, 8/26/17.They are all due 8/16/18 First two were bred each 5 times. They are milking in order of their calving dates. 57, 83, 66 & 54. 54# one is carrying twins and really dragging her down now with the heat. Cows to dry up in a month 3 of the 10 or so are milking over 100# yet. Wish I would have waiting to breed them another cycleez14.":3tiqtzel said:
