Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
Post Reply
Muddy
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Cold place!!!
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Muddy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:31 pm

Anyone raises or running black Hereford? I am thinking about getting a black Hereford bull but the plan is not set in the stone. I do love the calves from the red Hereford bulls but I don't realized that we have more red carriers in herd than we thought.



M.Magis
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:29 pm
Location: Cambridge, Ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by M.Magis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:59 am

Assuming this is serious...
I too tried a hereford bull and found more red carrier cows than I expected. I sold him and bought a black simmental bull. Much easier to find around here, and calves are all solid black or brockle/blaze faced.

User avatar
Ky hills
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:54 pm
Location: Clark County, KY
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Ky hills » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 am

Never used a black Hereford before, so can't speak as to anything about them in comparison. Have used Hereford Bulls several years. Our solid black cows so far must not be red carriers, but it is very possible. Our BWF on the other hand frequently have red calves.
In theory the black Herefords will give black calves, however I would be carefull and make sure that the bull was in fact homozygous black or at least double black. I have seen some black Herefords advertised as black Herefords but their dams were red.

User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4614
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Contact:

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Aaron » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 am

Ky hills wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 am
Never used a black Hereford before, so can't speak as to anything about them in comparison. Have used Hereford Bulls several years. Our solid black cows so far must not be red carriers, but it is very possible. Our BWF on the other hand frequently have red calves.
In theory the black Herefords will give black calves, however I would be carefull and make sure that the bull was in fact hzomozygous black or at least double black. I have seen some black Herefords advertised as black Herefords but their dams were red.
That is what I thought. Pay big money for heathen 'breed' and still end up with red calves. That would make me laugh.
cor durum laborem

Muddy
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Cold place!!!
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Muddy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:09 pm

Ky hills wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 am
Never used a black Hereford before, so can't speak as to anything about them in comparison. Have used Hereford Bulls several years. Our solid black cows so far must not be red carriers, but it is very possible. Our BWF on the other hand frequently have red calves.
In theory the black Herefords will give black calves, however I would be carefull and make sure that the bull was in fact homozygous black or at least double black. I have seen some black Herefords advertised as black Herefords but their dams were red.
I noticed lot of black Herefords has a red dam or a red granddam as well in their pedigree. I think Id preferred homozygous black ones. I don't know what is their average wean weights in commercial herd with black Hereford bulls. I do want some pounds in the calves but I also want some better uniformity and still have white faces.

Allenw
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:37 pm
Location: NW OK
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Allenw » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:39 am

Muddy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:09 pm
Ky hills wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 am
Never used a black Hereford before, so can't speak as to anything about them in comparison. Have used Hereford Bulls several years. Our solid black cows so far must not be red carriers, but it is very possible. Our BWF on the other hand frequently have red calves.
In theory the black Herefords will give black calves, however I would be carefull and make sure that the bull was in fact homozygous black or at least double black. I have seen some black Herefords advertised as black Herefords but their dams were red.
I noticed lot of black Herefords has a red dam or a red granddam as well in their pedigree. I think Id preferred homozygous black ones. I don't know what is their average wean weights in commercial herd with black Hereford bulls. I do want some pounds in the calves but I also want some better uniformity and still have white faces.
Starting with a cross bred bull isn't a way to get uniformity. Fire and ice matings aren't any better even if both sides are purebred.

W.B.
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:21 pm
Location: SD
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by W.B. » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 am

The black white face cattle are not Herefords they are crossbreds. Crossbreds will not breed as true. Some will never understand it.

Muddy
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Cold place!!!
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Muddy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 pm

I am fully aware of them being "crossbred" but it could be said the same thing for many black breeds. I do knew that these black Hereford isn't a Hereford but then again a black simmental isn't a simmental to me. Im just saying that they'll eliminate the unwanted red hided calves if you use right bull AND I do like my red angus cows better than black angus cows. After all the markets will pay a little more for a group of bwf calves and its easy to switch a bull than switch an entire herd.

elkwc
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:21 pm
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by elkwc » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 pm

Muddy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 pm
I am fully aware of them being "crossbred" but it could be said the same thing for many black breeds. I do knew that these black Hereford isn't a Hereford but then again a black simmental isn't a simmental to me. Im just saying that they'll eliminate the unwanted red hided calves if you use right bull AND I do like my red angus cows better than black angus cows. After all the markets will pay a little more for a group of bwf calves and its easy to switch a bull than switch an entire herd.
Well stated. Amazes me at those who call a Black Hereford a crossbred and turn around and state a Black Simental is a Simmental.Neither one is true to the original breed.

User avatar
ALACOWMAN
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 16174
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:16 pm
Location: Alabama the Beautiful
Has thanked: 280 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by ALACOWMAN » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:09 pm

Muddy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 pm
I am fully aware of them being "crossbred" but it could be said the same thing for many black breeds. I do knew that these black Hereford isn't a Hereford but then again a black simmental isn't a simmental to me. Im just saying that they'll eliminate the unwanted red hided calves if you use right bull AND I do like my red angus cows better than black angus cows. After all the markets will pay a little more for a group of bwf calves and its easy to switch a bull than switch an entire herd.
One thing you'd most likely get is a whiteface , without all the excess white the feather neck and white underneath..
someone said I should follow my dreams,,so I went back to bed...

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 23907
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 346 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Caustic Burno » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:19 pm

elkwc wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 pm
Muddy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 pm
I am fully aware of them being "crossbred" but it could be said the same thing for many black breeds. I do knew that these black Hereford isn't a Hereford but then again a black simmental isn't a simmental to me. Im just saying that they'll eliminate the unwanted red hided calves if you use right bull AND I do like my red angus cows better than black angus cows. After all the markets will pay a little more for a group of bwf calves and its easy to switch a bull than switch an entire herd.
Well stated. Amazes me at those who call a Black Hereford a crossbred and turn around and state a Black Simental is a Simmental.Neither one is true to the original breed.

Big difference is the other associations accept the crossbred for the real deal.
The American Hereford association doesn’t recognize them. Most are Angus composites to get a black hide.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

Muddy
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Cold place!!!
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Muddy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 pm

Yeah yeah yeah we get it that the American Hereford Association doesn't recognize the black Herefords just like the Black Angus Association doesn't recognize the red angus. That's why there are separated associations

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 23907
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 346 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Caustic Burno » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:45 pm

Muddy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 pm
Yeah yeah yeah we get it that the American Hereford Association doesn't recognize the black Herefords just like the Black Angus Association doesn't recognize the red angus. That's why there are separated associations
Actually you don’t get it!
The Angus are legit Angus not recognized by the American Angus Association.
No Hereford Association recognizes the Black Herefords , they had to form their own.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

Muddy
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Cold place!!!
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Hereford vs Blk Hereford

Post by Muddy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:07 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:45 pm
Muddy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 pm
Yeah yeah yeah we get it that the American Hereford Association doesn't recognize the black Herefords just like the Black Angus Association doesn't recognize the red angus. That's why there are separated associations
Actually you don’t get it!
The Angus are legit Angus not recognized by the American Angus Association.
No Hereford Association recognizes the Black Herefords , they had to form their own.
No you just wanted to make an argument every time black Hereford subject gets brought up. To be honest I don't care if the American Hereford Association doesn't recognized the black Hereford, the black herefords still offer something to the commercial guys. Sure you might give up some hybrid vigor but its no different from black sims and black limos and the angus composites. Plus I can see the black Hereford will benefits several commercial guys with the red cattle herd if they want to produce BWF feeders for the market. If the market wants red baldies, Ill keep breed them to the true Hereford bulls.

Post Reply