Fire away on these two

Just weaned a small batch of early spring calves and wanted some opinions on a couple.

This one's mine. He's my first attempt at raising a bull, although I'm still on the fence whether he will remain a bull or whether he'll be my gomer. He's 7 months old and weighs 576 lbs out of a first calf Postive Plus 73C daughter and Feltons Legend 242. Let 'er rip







This one is my brother's. She is a little over 7 months and weighed 658 lbs. She's out of his Gammer cow and Circle A Endeavor. Yes, I know she is lacking in the rear a bit, or at least it appears that way since she has so much capacity. She'll be retained as a replacement, but I was just curious what others thought of her.





Thanks,

From the navel back I like your bull calf, but think he may be a little light up front and has a feminine head. But he's only 7 months, I'd like to see him as he matures.

The heifer strikes me as an average angus heifer, we have plenty just like her.

Nice grass.

cfpinz

Hey Putz,

That hereford calf appears to have a real strong hip, with good muscle, but doesn't appear to carry it down in the stifle from behind. He may not be as deep in the flank as an adult either. His top looks good from what I can tell. His front end lacks a little in the shoulder and bone, but overall a nice calf. He would make an excellent steer, and may be worth a consideration as a herd bull. Good job!

Both are nice calves. I would give the bull a little time, I think he has potential. He is thick enough and still very clean in his front end. He has excellent gentics to be a maternal and carcass bull. I would like to see pictures later as he matures. What is his dam on the materal side?

Tom

1848":306mixzu said:

Hey Putz,

That hereford calf appears to have a real strong hip, with good muscle, but doesn't appear to carry it down in the stifle from behind. He may not be as deep in the flank as an adult either. His top looks good from what I can tell. His front end lacks a little in the shoulder and bone, but overall a nice calf. He would make an excellent steer, and may be worth a consideration as a herd bull. Good job!

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I agree with 1848. He is thick enough but is slightly shorter muscled than my ideal, he will likely develope a bulging rear, but the muscle won't go down very low on the hocks.

My main concern would be lack of chest depth, he is definately good enough to give him time till he is about 15 months old before culling or demoting him to a steer. At 7 months an opinion is little more than an educated guess.

tlmcr":3w3m1gab said:

Both are nice calves. I would give the bull a little time, I think he has potential. He is thick enough and still very clean in his front end. He has excellent gentics to be a maternal and carcass bull. I would like to see pictures later as he matures. What is his dam on the materal side?

Tom

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Thanks to everyone for their comments. I have seen some of the weaknesses that were pointed out and you have brought up a couple of weaknesses that I hadn't seen. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being barn blind since this is the first one I've raised. I know what I like to see in a yearling and a mature bull, but I also know that a lot of things change between 7 and 12 months and then again on up to 24 months or so.

Tom, the bulls mother is RF 73C Rose 64R (P42619584). 64R's mother is a CMF 103T Victor 262D daughter out of a (dare I say it...) Feltons 517 cow. 64R was 22N's first calf and she had a 111 weaning ratio. At the time I purchased the pair, I was looking for a foundation type female, The pair seemed to be just what I was looking for. Of course, other than 64R, I haven't really seen what 22N can do as a cow, since her second calf was born dead (breech). 22N does have a nice heifer calf at side now and I still think she's going to be a foundation type female.

One thing that keeps pointing me back towards keeping him in tact for now, is what someone had mentioned above, his maternal and carcass traits. With the way his front is shaped, I can't help but believe he would be an easy calver. But at the same time with the amount of muscle he shows in his rear and ribeye area already, I can only hope he would do OK in the carcass dept. If I keep him until yearling, I may try to get him scanned just to see how he does.

Another thing I am unsure of is his scrotal development. As I said, this is my first attempt at raising a bull and we always cut our other calves at birth, so I really haven't seen too many 7 month old bulls to compare him to.

Knersie, Here is a picture of his head. I think you'll approve of his eyeset, but please do give me an evaluation:

For anyone who is interested, here is what his EPDs would look like. This is just an average of sire and dam:

CED: 5.9
BW: 1.2
WW: 44
YW: 72
MILK: 23
M&G: 45
CEM: 0.0
SC: 0.8
FAT: 0.038
REA: 0.25
IMF: 0.20
BMI: $19
CEZ: $19
BII: $16
CHB: $23

No, I'm not a numbers breeder, but I do pay attention to them to some degree. I actually chose this mating more for phenotypic reasons (added thickness and to put a little white back on, among other things) but the numbers did average out OK too.

A nice looking prospect.

But always remember.....

I saw you pet a Longhorn. 8)

warpaint":9ii531pa said:

A nice looking prospect.

But always remember.....

I saw you pet a Longhorn. 8)

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Dang it Paint, that was supposed to be our little secret.


Shhh, I don't think anybody heard. ;-)

OK!!

I forgot. :shock:

Knersie, Here is a picture of his head. I think you'll approve of his eyeset, but please do give me an evaluation:

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head and eyeset looks very good for a 7 month old, usually eyebanks start developing around 7 or 8 months, but at this stage he looks good.

The little I can see of his scrotum also looks good, but scrotums tend to develope at their own time in every bull so comparison is very dificult at that age even for us who have seen many develope. If his scrotum looks sound is hanging a fair distance from the underline (which it looks) and is symmetrical I don't see reason for alarm.

I like the 2nd photo better, I think you have real prospect, take some more photos please.

Very nice pedigree and EPD's. He is definately worth keeping to see how he developes. I would not be concerned about weaning weight since he is out of a heifer. I would watch to see how he grows from now to yearling weight. I get over into MO for a few sales later in the fall, I would try to stop and see him if you like.

Tom

Thanks to everyone for the visual appraisals. I'll wait a few months and then give you another look at him, Knersie.

Tlmcr, what sales do you attend here in the Show Me state? I like to take in a few myself. I've been getting to Journagan's sale most years and usually the State sale the first weekend of December. Also, Jim Reed, the Roth's and a few others have been getting together to have a sale in November up at Sedalia the last couple years. I haven't made it to that one yet because it is usually the weekend I visit my brother in central Iowa and do some coon and pheasant hunting. This year I may go though, if the wifey will let me get away from her and the newborn for a bit.

El_Putzo":1j64rtl3 said:

Thanks to everyone for the visual appraisals. I'll wait a few months and then give you another look at him, Knersie.

Tlmcr, what sales do you attend here in the Show Me state? I like to take in a few myself. I've been getting to Journagan's sale most years and usually the State sale the first weekend of December. Also, Jim Reed, the Roth's and a few others have been getting together to have a sale in November up at Sedalia the last couple years. I haven't made it to that one yet because it is usually the weekend I visit my brother in central Iowa and do some coon and pheasant hunting. This year I may go though, if the wifey will let me get away from her and the newborn for a bit.

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Havent been on the boards for awhile. I like him. Give him some more time he may be better than you think. JHH