On Farm Service Labor Rate

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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:02 am

OleScout wrote:Had to have a large pecan tree removed from my yard. Tree guy priced the job at $1000. Told him to do it.
He arrived the next morning at 7:00am. Tree and his outfit loaded and gone at 8:20am. I could be upset that he made $1000 in 1.33 hours but I'm not. He brought a bob truck, track bobcat with grapple, two guys with chainsaws and himself. He was done before I could have gotten my old saw running. Much easier for me to earn $1000 somewhere else than cutup and load that tree when I don't have the right equipment.


He didn't make $1,000 in 1.33 hours. Travel time, sharpening the saws, stopping for gas, changing the oil in the truck, greasing the bobcat, packing trailer bearings, disposal of the tree, keeping the books, payroll, sweeping the floor in the shop.........It all takes time and it's all work. :D
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:20 am

Farm Fence Solutions wrote:
OleScout wrote:Had to have a large pecan tree removed from my yard. Tree guy priced the job at $1000. Told him to do it.
He arrived the next morning at 7:00am. Tree and his outfit loaded and gone at 8:20am. I could be upset that he made $1000 in 1.33 hours but I'm not. He brought a bob truck, track bobcat with grapple, two guys with chainsaws and himself. He was done before I could have gotten my old saw running. Much easier for me to earn $1000 somewhere else than cutup and load that tree when I don't have the right equipment.


He didn't make $1,000 in 1.33 hours. Travel time, sharpening the saws, stopping for gas, changing the oil in the truck, greasing the bobcat, packing trailer bearings, disposal of the tree, keeping the books, payroll, sweeping the floor in the shop.........It all takes time and it's all work. :D



i cut and haul away trees all the time and the only thing I do is sharpen the saw and hook up the gooseneck. i'd say he did make about that.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:25 am

ddd75 wrote:
Farm Fence Solutions wrote:
OleScout wrote:Had to have a large pecan tree removed from my yard. Tree guy priced the job at $1000. Told him to do it.
He arrived the next morning at 7:00am. Tree and his outfit loaded and gone at 8:20am. I could be upset that he made $1000 in 1.33 hours but I'm not. He brought a bob truck, track bobcat with grapple, two guys with chainsaws and himself. He was done before I could have gotten my old saw running. Much easier for me to earn $1000 somewhere else than cutup and load that tree when I don't have the right equipment.


He didn't make $1,000 in 1.33 hours. Travel time, sharpening the saws, stopping for gas, changing the oil in the truck, greasing the bobcat, packing trailer bearings, disposal of the tree, keeping the books, payroll, sweeping the floor in the shop.........It all takes time and it's all work. :D



i cut and haul away trees all the time and the only thing I do is sharpen the saw and hook up the gooseneck. i'd say he did make about that.


You must have some magical equipment that doesn't require fossil fuels or maintenance? I'm assuming that you report that income to Uncle Sam, and are current on your workman's comp and commercial liability insurance? And you never sweep the shop? The overhead is there, but you are ignoring it.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:46 am

i don't need to change the oil, grease all fittings, fill the tank, wash and wax my equipment to use it for 1 use. Gov. isn't going to take much and insurance is cheap. Labor is pretty cheap on jobs like that as well > I can hire a guy for 20 bucks a day to work all day loading all the tree while I cut it.

i'm not saying he's making 100% profit but its not like he has a 800 dollar bill on a 1000 dollar job.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby callmefence » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:33 pm

ddd75 wrote:i don't need to change the oil, grease all fittings, fill the tank, wash and wax my equipment to use it for 1 use. Gov. isn't going to take much and insurance is cheap. Labor is pretty cheap on jobs like that as well > I can hire a guy for 20 bucks a day to work all day loading all the tree while I cut it.

i'm not saying he's making 100% profit but its not like he has a 800 dollar bill on a 1000 dollar job.


Actually it's probably not far off that.
You have to maintain and purchase equipment to use it everyday. You also have to keep employees busy everyday.
If I don't have fence to build. I hemorrhage 700.00 a day keeping my guys busy and that's taking my wife off the clock.
Fwiw 20.00 will barely cover the SS and Medi on three employees. And don't forget if you or your 20.00 employee makes a mistake you have to pay for it. Go to your day job and take a look around and think about if you had to pay for everything.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Brute 23 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:09 pm

callmefence wrote:
ddd75 wrote:i don't need to change the oil, grease all fittings, fill the tank, wash and wax my equipment to use it for 1 use. Gov. isn't going to take much and insurance is cheap. Labor is pretty cheap on jobs like that as well > I can hire a guy for 20 bucks a day to work all day loading all the tree while I cut it.

i'm not saying he's making 100% profit but its not like he has a 800 dollar bill on a 1000 dollar job.


Actually it's probably not far off that.
You have to maintain and purchase equipment to use it everyday. You also have to keep employees busy everyday.
If I don't have fence to build. I hemorrhage 700.00 a day keeping my guys busy and that's taking my wife off the clock.
Fwiw 20.00 will barely cover the SS and Medi on three employees. And don't forget if you or your 20.00 employee makes a mistake you have to pay for it. Go to your day job and take a look around and think about if you had to pay for everything.


Fence it right. You cant just look at one job and say that guy makes a killing. There is a laundry list of expenses that you don't see. A big one is the govt taxes.... at the end of the day with all the other expenses if I clear $10 per man per hour uncle same gets $3-4 per hour.

I dare any one who thinks some one charges to much for a service to start their own business. Its not as easy as you think. We will be glad to meet you on the playing field. :tiphat:
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby chevytaHOE5674 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:40 pm

ddd75 wrote:and insurance is cheap....


Then you obviously have never priced liability and workers comp insurance for tree work and chainsaws have you...? I used to do tree climbing and removals and was properly insured and my ins guy said it was the highest premium of any of the policies that he had. Between the injury rate with chainsaws and being in the air with saws, and the potential for things to go wrong (IE tree on house, powerlines, etc) it costs a lot to be properly insured for that kind of work.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:45 pm

mileage rate breakdown:
National average pay for truck drivers is $66,200 year
Drivers paid by the mile tend to earn more than hourly or salaried drivers and average 35 cents per mile.
Labor mileage 70 cents per mile (to cover round trip)

To own and operate a Service truck/van: fuel, insurance, maintenance, depreciation ect. 75 cents per mile average
with the average range being 65 - 90 cents mile depending on how it's equipped.

Service truck/van mileage 1.80 mile (round trip)
1.80 + .70 = 2.50

$2.25 mileage = breakeven paying driver $15 hour (School bus drivers locally get $14.50 hr carrying precious lives)
$2.50 mileage rate is equivalent to being paid at a rate of $66,200 per year for driving time.
$3.00 mile is equivalent to pay rate of $113,485 after expenses.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby callmefence » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:56 pm

Son of Butch wrote:mileage rate breakdown:
National average pay for truck drivers is $66,200 year
Drivers paid by the mile tend to earn more than hourly or salaried drivers and average 35 cents per mile.
Labor mileage 70 cents per mile (to cover round trip)

To own and operate a Service truck/van: fuel, insurance, maintenance, depreciation ect. 75 cents per mile average
with the average range being 65 - 90 cents mile depending on how it's equipped.

Service truck/van mileage 1.80 mile (round trip)
1.80 + .70 = 2.50

$2.25 mileage = breakeven paying driver $15 hour (School bus drivers locally get $14.50 hr carrying precious lives)
$2.50 mileage rate is equivalent to being paid at a rate of $66,200 per year for driving time.
$3.00 mile is equivalent to pay rate of $113,485 after expenses.



Your wrong on this one..
3.00 per mile is pretty standard rate. It's one way or loaded miles. And it's not just labor.
And a school bus driver does not have to pay for the bus , the fuel, the maintenance or the insurance....
Your repair man might have beat you up on the hourly rate but the milage is fair.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:14 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
callmefence wrote:
ddd75 wrote:i don't need to change the oil, grease all fittings, fill the tank, wash and wax my equipment to use it for 1 use. Gov. isn't going to take much and insurance is cheap. Labor is pretty cheap on jobs like that as well > I can hire a guy for 20 bucks a day to work all day loading all the tree while I cut it.

i'm not saying he's making 100% profit but its not like he has a 800 dollar bill on a 1000 dollar job.


Actually it's probably not far off that.
You have to maintain and purchase equipment to use it everyday. You also have to keep employees busy everyday.
If I don't have fence to build. I hemorrhage 700.00 a day keeping my guys busy and that's taking my wife off the clock.
Fwiw 20.00 will barely cover the SS and Medi on three employees. And don't forget if you or your 20.00 employee makes a mistake you have to pay for it. Go to your day job and take a look around and think about if you had to pay for everything.


Fence it right. You cant just look at one job and say that guy makes a killing. There is a laundry list of expenses that you don't see. A big one is the govt taxes.... at the end of the day with all the other expenses if I clear $10 per man per hour uncle same gets $3-4 per hour.

I dare any one who thinks some one charges to much for a service to start their own business. Its not as easy as you think. We will be glad to meet you on the playing field. :tiphat:


Bingo. :nod:
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:16 pm

Mileage rate: $3.00 mile
3 stops in same day 40 miles, 80 miles and 120 miles
$3 x 40 = $120
80 = $240
120 = $360

Should the true distance driven be charged?
or double dip because you can and charge each as though you went back to the shop between each stop?
Of course you grab the wind fall effectively getting $6 rate, equivalent to $453,940 yr pay rate for your driving time
vs breakeven.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby callmefence » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:23 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Mileage rate: $3.00 mile
3 stops in same day 40 miles, 80 miles and 120 miles
$3 x 40 = $120
80 = $240
120 = $360

Should the true distance driven be charged?
or double dip because you can and charge each as though you went back to the shop between each stop?
Of course you grab the wind fall effectively getting $6 rate, equivalent to $453,940 yr pay rate for your driving time
vs breakeven.


Three corn dryers emergency calls spaced along the same route every work day for a year make that math work.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:07 pm

callmefence wrote:
ddd75 wrote:i don't need to change the oil, grease all fittings, fill the tank, wash and wax my equipment to use it for 1 use. Gov. isn't going to take much and insurance is cheap. Labor is pretty cheap on jobs like that as well > I can hire a guy for 20 bucks a day to work all day loading all the tree while I cut it.

i'm not saying he's making 100% profit but its not like he has a 800 dollar bill on a 1000 dollar job.


Actually it's probably not far off that.
You have to maintain and purchase equipment to use it everyday. You also have to keep employees busy everyday.
If I don't have fence to build. I hemorrhage 700.00 a day keeping my guys busy and that's taking my wife off the clock.
Fwiw 20.00 will barely cover the SS and Medi on three employees. And don't forget if you or your 20.00 employee makes a mistake you have to pay for it. Go to your day job and take a look around and think about if you had to pay for everything.


I do work for myself and I do have lots of equipment to maintain.

I've built fence before too, I pull up with 70k+ in equipment to build a fence. it's not cheap. I pull up with my bulldoze to get a building pad prepped. 3500 for 6 hours of work but I have 80k in equipment sitting there.

It's not cheap, it's not easy.
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:08 pm

callmefence wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:$2.25 mileage = breakeven paying driver $15 hour (School bus drivers locally get $14.50 hr carrying precious lives)
$2.50 mileage rate is equivalent to being paid at a rate of $66,200 per year for driving time.
$3.00 mile is equivalent to pay rate of $113,485 after expenses.


Your wrong on this one..
3.00 per mile is pretty standard rate... loaded miles. And it's not just labor.
And a school bus driver does not have to pay for the bus , the fuel, the maintenance or the insurance....

Yes, $2.50 - $4.00 per loaded mile is pretty much standard here too, with $3 the most common.
Just pointing out travel time has already been well compensated.
Service truck/vans charging $3.50 mile tick me off (I'm old and remember when a Buck a loaded mile was standard)

Of course the Bus driver doesn't pay for bus ect.....
those expenses are already strongly covered at $1.975 mile in the $2.25 loaded mile breakeven rate.
I was just pointing out I even included $15 hr for driver in calculating breakeven of 2.25

True breakeven is even lower than $2.25 per loaded mile.


p.s.
Many spend 20 - 60+ minutes daily traveling to and from work on their own dime for less than $36 hr jobs.
240 miles @ 75 cents mile cost of owning and operating a service van/truck = $180
$3 x 120 miles = 360 - 180 = $180
240 miles at 48 mph = 5 hrs 180 div by 5 = $36 hr

p.p.s.s.
For service work/repairs... do you recommend a 15% tip too?
:)
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Re: On Farm Service Labor Rate

Postby callmefence » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:50 pm

Son of Butch wrote:
callmefence wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:$2.25 mileage = breakeven paying driver $15 hour (School bus drivers locally get $14.50 hr carrying precious lives)
$2.50 mileage rate is equivalent to being paid at a rate of $66,200 per year for driving time.
$3.00 mile is equivalent to pay rate of $113,485 after expenses.


Your wrong on this one..
3.00 per mile is pretty standard rate... loaded miles. And it's not just labor.
And a school bus driver does not have to pay for the bus , the fuel, the maintenance or the insurance....

Yes, $2.50 - $4.00 per loaded mile is pretty much standard here too, with $3 the most common.
Just pointing out travel time has already been well compensated.
Service truck/vans charging $3.50 mile tick me off (I'm old and remember when a Buck a loaded mile was standard)

Of course the Bus driver doesn't pay for bus ect.....
those expenses are already strongly covered at $1.975 mile in the $2.25 loaded mile breakeven rate.
I was just pointing out I even included $15 hr for driver in calculating breakeven of 2.25

True breakeven is even lower than $2.25 per loaded mile.


p.s.
Many spend 20 - 60+ minutes daily traveling to and from work on their own dime for less than $36 hr jobs.
240 miles @ 75 cents mile cost of owning and operating a service van/truck = $180
$3 x 120 miles = 360 - 180 = $180
240 miles at 48 mph = 5 hrs 180 div by 5 = $36 hr

p.p.s.s.
For service work/repairs... do you recommend a 15% tip too?
:)


Um.... I'm a thinking i might know why you got overcharged butch... :D
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